I’m considering buying a new TV. There’s plenty of posts about trying to find dumb TVs, comments like ‘just don’t connect it to the internet/network’.

What surprises me is that there isn’t a good overview of (popular) TVs or brands with basic information, answering for each TV:

  • Can you use it as a basic TV by choosing not to enable smart features during setup?
  • Can you opt out by just not accepting a bunch of agreements?
  • Does it have a camera and/or microphone? Where in the device are these? Is there a physical disable switch for microphone?
  • Does it nag when not connected to any network?
  • Does it have higher than normal power usage when not able to phone home?
  • Has it been discovered to connect to public WiFi networks? Does it have the (theoretical) ability to connect to 5G mobile networks?

And similar.

There are extensive lists with a lot of detail about VPN services but nothing like that for TVs. Am I ignorant of a good source, or does this just not exist (yet)?

  • Tenkard@lemmy.ml
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    2 months ago

    Just set up a TCL and it has a “basic” option which makes it work without anything. I’m still trying to decide if I should buy a Nvidia shield to pair with it so I enabled it “fully” for now, will probably switch it back. It’s basically android so many of these behaviours are just like on android phones

  • rutrum@lm.paradisus.dayEnglish
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    2 months ago

    For best privacy, get a monitor and a tv box (like nvidia shield, or roll your own software a single board computer like a raspberry pi). That might be the only way to trust a tv: dont use it at all.

  • zod000@lemmy.ml
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    2 months ago

    So I just bought a brand new “dumb” TV for $150 off of Amazon (43" 1080 Sceptre). It isn’t high end in the slightest, but it IS brand new and not some weird old stock and the picture and sound don’t feel too far off from my significantly more expensive higher end LCD TVs. I wanted one that I could put on a rolling stand and move between a few rooms and saw no benefit to 4k at that screen size. Other than that, there are some decent “digital signage” TVs that were decently priced available as well from Samsung and a few other brands. I didn’t see anything that was OLED, but I was burned hard (quite literally with burn-in) on earlier OLED gear, so I am avoiding it until the prices get low enough that I can be fine with the chance that it will be crap after 4-5 years of use.

      • zod000@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        Try “lcd tv non-smart”, “lcd tv hospitality”, or “lcd business tv” or any variations thereof.

    • dragonrules@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I recently found myself in the market for one of these when my father in law decided to connect my Vizio TV to the internet. All the updates since 2019 installed and it became unusable with all the crap they installed/changed. No way to downgrade firmware.

      I bought a 55” Samsung display and it works great as a dumb tv. I can connect via HDMI and my antenna just like a regular tv. The interface is a little clunky at times but that’s because it’s set up for a display board. I can even plug my flash drive into it for videos/pictures. It will never connect to the internet although it has that capability (and apparently an app for if it’s used as a display).

  • bokherif@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Roku TVs have version locked features, so I update them once then reset network settings, which wipes the connection. Then there’s the indicator light which you need to remove. But after that connect an apple tv and use it!

  • Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
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    2 months ago

    Samsung is known to be one of the more cancerous of ad-ridden “smart” TVs

    I haven’t had any issues with my Sony TV but I bought it several years ago and don’t really use it (I generally consume content on my PC with 3 monitors). It is not connected to any network.

  • Salvo@aussie.zoneEnglish
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    2 months ago

    We have a HiSense 60” and have never connected it to any network. It works perfectly as a Dumb Monitor with multiple HDMI inputs and HDCP and HDMI-CEC work perfectly with our AppleTV (HDMI 1) and PS5 (HDMI2) We have TOSLink Optical Audio to an Amp(receiver) and it works almost perfectly, until the Amp chucks a hissy-fit because people forget to turn it off.

  • phughes@lemmy.mlEnglish
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    2 months ago

    I was looking for information like that when I last bought a TV in February and couldn’t find anything.

    I punted and bought a SAMSUNG 65-Inch Class Crystal UHD 4K CU8000 Series (that’s like 1/4 of the amazon title) and have not connected it to the internet at all. As far as not being connected to the network, it’s… fine.

    • There have been no issues with it trying to lock me out of features.
    • I didn’t try to opt-out, but my intuition tells me that’s unlikely.
    • No camera that I know of. I think there’s a microphone in the remote, but I’ve never used it, and since I’ve never connected it to the internet (and I never use the remote) I don’t really worry about it.
    • I’ve not experienced any nag screens.
    • I have not measured the power usage directly (and would have nothing to compare it to since I’m not willing to connect it to the internet even as an experiment) but I do have it connected to a power-usage sensing outlet strip and it uses dramatically less power than my previous Samsung 42" HD LCD (with florescent backlighting.) So much so that for it to not turn off the switched outlets I had to add my AppleTV to the control outlet (and for extended dark scenes even that’s not enough.)
    • If it’s connecting to networks surreptitiously I would expect to start seeing ads or some change in behavior, which hasn’t happened, so I’m going to say probably not.

    As far as how good of a TV it is, (which you didn’t ask, but since I’m here):
    I’m not the most discerning viewer, but I think it’s got a good picture. Sometimes I can see the backlight adjust itself on very dark scenes, but it’s hardly a show stopper. I have an external speaker system, so really the only thing I do is turn it on and off (with the AppleTV remote). My only other gripe is that it takes a few seconds to decide to display the selected input full screen.

  • GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
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    2 months ago

    What I don’t understand is why don’t you just buy a monitor and connect a digital TV receiver to it via an adapter (if it doesn’t have an HDMI output). It’ll be more expensive for sure and it will require a design-hostile antenna but all the privacy issues should just go out of the window.

    • tab@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      monitors are generally made to be viewed up close - if video quality is no issue, then a commercial display /digital signage is also okay.

      however, a good detailed list of tv aspects would help with even that choice.

      not shooting any option down - just wondering about available resources/information.

    • Im_old@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Do they make 55" OLED monitors? Only stuff I’ve seen is LED, and I’m pretty sure the picture/color quality is inferior to proper tv panel

      • GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        I think the color quality of good monitors is far superior to it in TVs because monitors are meant for professional image editing. The size may be a problem though. Usually monitors are not more than 27".

    • The Doctor@beehaw.orgEnglish
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      2 months ago

      From trying to get people to do that (with no success), it’s because it seems too much like work. Folks want something they can plug in and go… but plugging in one extra thing is just a bridge too far these days. It’s frustrating as shit.

      • Tab@feddit.nlOP
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        2 months ago

        I hear you, but I’m not an example of this. I have a Pi-hole set up, firewalled my phone, happily use LibreWolf, etc.

        Besides that, I also want to do the research on what screen to get. If a worse screen (small one, monitor or digital signage) is the only acceptable solution, then that’s what I’ll pick – but having some idea of what it would mean to pick a typical smart TV and try to limit the consequences is also something I want to consider. The only frustrating thing to me is that it’s hard to find out details about this (and that includes details about digital signage screen quality, for instance, since businesses don’t seem to care all that much).

  • robolemmy@lemmy.worldEnglish
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    2 months ago

    I love how literally nobody is answering your actual question.

    I agree that this is problematic and we need TV reviews to include at least some of the information you cite.

    If it helps, I have an LG smart TV. It complains if you don’t let it access the internet at setup, but if you connect it once and let it do its initial patching, you can decline all agreements and not get nagged until it tries to update again. To keep it from further updates, you can disconnect it from wifi and it doesn’t seem to try to reconnect. I can’t speak to public wifi because there aren’t any open access points near my TV.

    In contrast, I have a samsung TV that loses its mind if it can’t connect to the internet and becomes basically useless for all the nagging.

    • Tab@feddit.nlOP
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      2 months ago

      Thanks! See, that distinction is super helpful. I’ve found (old) lists of Smart TV OSes and how their privacy settings work (or don’t), with some details on what happens when you decline EULA’s, but not many and not very useful ones.

      The answer may well be that anyone that actually cares about this stuff just doesn’t buy any smart TV (or otherwise hasn’t had to in the last few years). Still, with the answer ‘just don’t connect it to the internet’ being the most common, I’d expected to see a bit more information like you’ve given.

      So the Samsung keeps nagging even when you’re watching direct HDMI input? And does the LG need to boot up the entire (Web)OS to view HDMI input?

      • robolemmy@lemmy.worldEnglish
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        2 months ago

        The Samsung tries to “identify” what’s on an hdmi input before it will connect. It seems to call out to the internet to do that because it takes forever to fail and show you the display anyway when it’s not connected to the internet. Even when it is connected, it takes a stupidly long time to switch to a new input. I super hate it and will never buy another samsung tv.

        I guess the lg needs to boot tizen before it works, because I see the logo briefly but then it goes directly to the last used input with no other bullshit, so it’s fine with me.

  • Nicro@discuss.tchncs.de
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    2 months ago

    Interesting discussion, but many of the questions have pretty lame default answers. I have a Sony bravia from 2015 for reference.

    • The TVs that come with an OS instead of just firmware are smart-TVs in all aspects. Your cable TV or hdmi input is an app just like Netflix is, and is subject to a launcher. You can’t make it dumb by disabling stuff.

    • You can mostly reject targeted ads and disable personalized data collection. But smart TVs are priced with ads included, so completely turning off everything will require unsupported modding.

    • cameras are only found in telepresence hardware, unless you want to be paranoid. Check the feature list. Microphones can be in the remotes of some TVs, but this will usually be advertised as a smart assistent if present.

    • I haven’t seen any TV actively complain about missing wifi (except for during setup for updates)

    • unless you are tricking the TV into thinking it’s online, any connection attempts/power usage would be a bug. Do note that smart-TV will by default have a standby-draw influenced by WoL or similar.

    • This is pure tinfoil-territory. No hotspot/carrier carries data without being payed for it. It’s also not economical when telemetry can be sent over the customers home-wifi in 99% of cases. There is no gain in hiding sim-cards in every TV. Unless you are a person of interest and are sent a modified TV in that case.

    Hope this helps.

  • Sam_Bass@lemmy.ml
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    2 months ago

    the only time i let mine connect through my hotpotted phone is to check for and download software updates. last one was about 4 months ago at justover 500mb

  • quixotic120@lemmy.worldEnglish
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    2 months ago

    the answer is basically all TVs are subsidized to some degree. A list is somewhat pointless because they all do some sketchy shit and as lg has recently shown they reserve the right to change the terms years after the fact with firmware updates, even if you buy a flagship model that cost 3-5k

    Basically you need to use it intelligently. Either don’t connect it to the internet at all, only connect it to an intranet/isolated vlan, or (least effective) block every suspicious outgoing request with your router or a dns thing like adguard/pihole.

    The alternatives are to buy a non consumer display (eg something for signage or for like a meeting room in an office) which are usually more durable but also often far more expensive (no ad subsidies), the panel quality is generally noticeably worse (unless you’re buying a mediocre tv), and you lose out on enthusiast features (earc, vrr, etc). Or you can get a solid projector; the cheap projectors are usually kind of junk but nice ones are quite nice and often (but not always, they’re increasingly “smart”) have barebones ui/os. This can be pretty impractical for your living situation though

    • Tab@feddit.nlOP
      0·
      2 months ago

      I get what you’re saying. What I’m running into is that there is little information on what happens if you ‘dont connect it to the internet at all’. I would happily do that, but as another comment notes, some devices keep whining until you do connect them, while others don’t. I can also easily set up a separate ‘fake’ network to black-hole all the communication attempts of the TV, but I have no idea whether that would stop the nagging – or the attempts for it to connect to public WiFi access points.

      It would be really cool if people experimenting with this kind of thing could pool their findings, that’s all.

  • Boomkop3@reddthat.com
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    2 months ago

    Personally, I say F smart tv’s. The smart bit is going to be old and useless in three years. The panel will last me over a decade.

    Yes, you can ignore all the nagging and smart stuff and just set it to an hdmi input or something.

    Then hooking up a 3rd party smart box is what I recommend.