• goat@sh.itjust.worksOPM
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    3 months ago

    they did! Lenin, despite his solution to everything being mass murder, made some great strides.

    … Until Stalin reversed everything back to how it used to be. And now Stalin is celebrated by tankies despite his reign ultimately leading to the collapse of the Soviet Union. Lenin warned them, damnit, he warned them!

    • Asafum@feddit.nl
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      3 months ago

      It’s almost like there’s nuance in just about all things…

      It’s too easy for us to take the “simple” reality we think we understand and feel superior to others like the example about libs loving to bomb Muslims…

      If it were just about that there are a fuckton of other places we’d be doing that as well…

      • goat@sh.itjust.worksOPM
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        3 months ago

        Oh, this should be enlightening. Please explain to everyone the nuance in removing women’s rights so they can become baby factories for Stalin’s army.

        Remember the rules. There’s no justifying authoritarianism.

        • Asafum@feddit.nl
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          3 months ago

          I’m not the person you were initially talking to, I was trying to (and apparently failing) support you. You had provided nuance. :P

          • goat@sh.itjust.worksOPM
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            3 months ago

            Oh yeah, I can see the different names now, my b. I thought your comment was sarcastic lol. I’ll delete it!

    • Achyu@lemmy.sdf.org
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      3 months ago

      Lenin, despite his solution to everything being mass murder

      Isn’t that the USA solution?
      Genociding Guatemala.
      Use chemical weapons in Vietnam against their people.
      The only country to ever use nuclear weapons on civillians.
      WMD quests.
      Smuggle drugs into their own country, in black neighbourhoods and such, to increase violence and unrest in such populations.

      Stalin is celebrated because of the rapid industrialisation and his correct prediction of the need to do it to defeat enemies, which came true with the WW2 and the Nazis being defeated by their army.

      And when some people include POW imprisonment for gulag data and Nazi deaths in the war as Stalin’s kill count, some leftists would counter it.

      Their HDI improved under communism.

      • goat@sh.itjust.worksOPM
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        3 months ago

        yes, the US is shit, moving on.

        Stalin is celebrated because of the rapid industrialisation and his correct prediction of the need to do it to defeat enemies, which came true with the WW2 and the Nazis being defeated by their army.

        Hey, now, don’t be disingenuous. Stalin was perfectly okay with Nazi Germany and wanted an equal share in the invasion of Poland. They only helped the Allies after Nazi Germany betrayed them. If Nazi Germany didn’t betray the Union, then the Union would’ve been okay with their existence.

        And when some people include POW imprisonment for gulag data and Nazi deaths in the war as Stalin’s kill count, some leftists would counter it.

        And you doubt this? Do you doubt that Stalin’s soviet union rounded up Jews, queers and minorities for the main purpose being extermination?

        • Achyu@lemmy.sdf.org
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          3 months ago

          U S is shit

          I think their foreign policy and the orgs related to that are evil, but thank you.

          Stalin was perfectly okay with Nazi Germany

          Stalin asked Britain and France to band together with them to defeat Nazi Germany, but his pleas were not heard. They made treaties with Nazi Germany, where they let Nazi Germany and Poland to split up Czechoslovakia among themselves.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement
          Britain and France made this agreement with Germany, Italy and Poland in 1938.

          Why would Stalin risk the lives of his people with conflict against Germany(which was quite strong) when the other major countries were behaving like that?
          The Soviet-Germany non-aggression pact was made in 1939, almost a year after the Munich agreement.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact

          and wanted an equal share in the invasion of Poland.

          Poland captured parts of the Russian empire during their civil war/freedom struggle. And Poland was perfectly okay with Nazi Germany and partitioned Czechoslovakia with them.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Czechoslovakia_(1938–1945)
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Soviet_War

          Or if you believe that the Polish did it to secure the Polish populace in the area from Nazi Germany, then is Stalin wrong for wanting to secure the former Russian empire’s populace from Nazi Germany?

          So are you the one being disingenuous?

          And you doubt this? Do you doubt that Stalin’s soviet union rounded up Jews, queers and minorities for the main purpose being extermination?

          I do. With how you got the points above wrong, I do.

          Though, I don’t blame you. I used to think similarly, but when I saw the data above on how the other countries sort-of forced the Soviet Union into a non-aggression pact by siding with Nazi Gemrnay, my view of Stalin changed a lot.

          He has other issues tho.
          Homosexuality which was decriminalised by the communist revolution was recriminalised during his time.

          But regarding the Nazis, Stalin opposed them, but was forced to be pragmatic for the safety of his nation. I have no reason to hate him for that. I sort-of respect him for that. He predicted that the Nazis n others would attack them and went for rapid industrialisation, which gave them a better fighting chance.

          • goat@sh.itjust.worksOPM
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            3 months ago

            But regarding the Nazis, Stalin opposed them, but was forced to be pragmatic for the safety of his nation. I have no reason to hate him for that. I sort-of respect him for that.

            You respect him for siding with fucking nazi germany when it came to the invasion of poland. Get a big heavy banhammer, tankie. Try again when you don’t respect Stalin.

        • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
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          3 months ago

          Do you doubt that Stalin’s soviet union rounded up Jews, queers and minorities for the main purpose being extermination?

          What is the difference between “minorities” and “Jews” here?

          • goat@sh.itjust.worksOPM
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            3 months ago

            Minorities are minorities. Some religions, queers, poc, etc~ countries that the soviet union annexed. Ukrainians were considered a minority.

            • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
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              3 months ago

              Why did you scope Jews out from the other minorities tho?

              Also the groups you mentioned were hardly primary targets of soviet repression.

              So kinda odd to be naming victims but focusing on this when you look at the bigger picture of what Soviet regime has done.

              Both raw numbers and pro proportion wise.

              Crimean tartars were outright removed from Crimea with half dying en route to centrla Asia.

              25% of baltics states were forcefully removed due to being “enemies of the people”

              Some weird western bias here lol

              • goat@sh.itjust.worksOPM
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                3 months ago

                Because the Soviet Union was vehemently antisemitic.

                And Ukraine wasn’t a primary target of repression? Are you forgetting the holodomor?

                • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
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                  3 months ago

                  You mentioned Ukrainians already I was topping off with examples of other people targeted at scale, kazakh should be mentioned too tbh…

                  As for anti semetism within USSR… Just because Jews got caught up in purges, doesn’t make it anti semetism.

                  chema and NKVD were loaded with Jews esp near the top during Holodomor and Stalin killed them off after they did a good job.

                  Is this anti-semitism you are talking about?

                  • goat@sh.itjust.worksOPM
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                    3 months ago

                    I’m assuming you’re just blissfully unaware of the antisemitism within the Soviet Union.

                    We’ll take the Doctor’s Plot as an example. The Soviet Union created a campaign where they said that Jewish doctors intended to kill leading communists, which of course just to purge more jews.

                    Also what do you mean by good job?