In fairness I haven’t seen the show, I’m seeing a lot of parents say it’s for 13+ teens, and some say 8+.
It has swearing and jokes about sex. I was raised in a household where I couldn’t say “Damn,” “Fart,” or “Ass.” Two close friends of mine don’t care if their 6 year olds say “fuck.” And honestly, it seems like they have a closer relationship to their kids than I do to my parents (I love them and care for them, but our mode of communication is pretty formal).
Also, I was watching Urotsukidoji, Battle Angel Alita, The Guyver around 11-13 years which is probably way worse.
One of the main characters in hazbin is an anthropomorphic spider prostitute porn star drug addict named “angel dust” who is in a very graphic emotionally, physically and sexually abusive relationship with the porn studio director that’s exploiting them, and one of his major themes is why he hates himself for liking being treated like that.
While not the most graphic show Ive seen (dsspite multiple onscreen dismemberments), it’s easily the most adult oriented cartoon/anime I’ve watched. It’s certainly not geared for children and I would be extremely uncomfortable having a conversation about why people stay with their abusers with a kid. It’s not me being prudish, its that it requires a fuckload of societal context that most adults don’t have in order to be able to discuss it in anything like a mature way, and I don’t want to have to explain things like “the gray areas around coercion and nonconsensual sex” to someone else’s kid in a panel setting. It’s going to be as uncomfortable for them as it is for me when we get to, say, “self harm as expressed through consenting to sexual abuse”.
Thats an easier to explain example, but I certainly don’t want to have to explain the 2000 years of real-world religious bloodshed being evoked with lines like “if hell is forever then that means heaven’s a lie” to a kid, either.
Wouldn’t a kid just not understand what’s happening though? We’ve all experienced watching something again as an adult and being like “ohhhhh THAT’s what it’s about.”
And/or most kids recognize “this character is doing something bad,” even if they don’t understand the context, aren’t we just talking another satanic panic here? Like how it was false alleged CoD or D&D makes kids into serial killers.
I’m not saying kids shouldn’t watch it, though imo they shouldn’t, just that there’s no way I would be comfortable discussing it around a kid.
I think the danger is not in children understanding it, its that they’ll misunderstand it, and with some topics you want to be careful to ensure a kid has the right background context to understand it.
You should, it’s damn good! The sister show, Helluva Boss, is free on youtube and is quite different but also very good and I highly recommend it. (Heads up, Hazbin’s pilot episode is canon and plot critical and on youtube and is not included with the rest of the show, which is on prime video. Watch that first!)
Real question here, you ever worked with any children, or is this idealism? Because the idea that a child could have the relevant background to understand the nuanced motivations of characters in these situations is pretty… well depressing, if we assume that all children are going to have that background.
As an illustrative example, children’s media. It isn’t simplistic because we’re condescending, it’s simplistic because its both to explain simple, fundemental concepts and becasue that’s what kids enjoy. They can relate to it, because it addresses concepts that they have the intellectual capacity and prerequisite understanding to be able to relate to it. This is childhood education at its heart.
I don’t want to explain concpets that most actual adults cant understand, or even discuss in a mature way, to a child. People use “you’ll understand when your older” all too often as an excuse to brush aside questions they just don’t want to take the time to explain, but sometimes it’s because explaining “I hated myself so much I didn’t care what happened with my body which is why I have all these scars that spell out words you hopefully dont know yet on my chest/legs/back” isn’t something a child can understand. And thank fuck for that.
I’ve been around enough to know they respect sometimes not being treated like children.
I’m not saying that a child who’s not ready for something should be forced to deal with it. The role of a parent is to be a safety net they can run back to every time the world gets a little too scary—literally, there are studies about this. But for a child that is ready, who wants to know, what I mean to find out is why you would reject them.
I don’t want to explain concpets that most actual adults cant understand, or even discuss in a mature way, to a child.
See, the worry I have is that things like this are the reason those adults don’t understand it. In some respects, these adults are still children because they were never given the opportunity to learn.
And it’s not like it can’t be useful to them. The fact that people can be abused, like certain aspects of it, then hate themselves for liking any part of it—I mean, I can think of a few “left alone with uncle” situations that really ring true here. If they can’t understand what they themselves are going through, I really don’t know what hope they have.
Just to reiterate, I’m not saying we should gather up every 4-year-old and show them a snuff film. What I am saying is that, to some degree, growing up is a self-directed process, and when somebody is ready to tackle something, they should at least be given the chance to experiment with those ideas. Even for adults: only as much as they can handle, and a warm, comfortable room when they can’t anymore.
This is such a shitty comparison lol
You’re arguing with a child.
So they are arguing to be allowed at adult conventions?
Can’t they just click the “I’m +18” button on websites like the rest of us?
In fairness I haven’t seen the show, I’m seeing a lot of parents say it’s for 13+ teens, and some say 8+.
It has swearing and jokes about sex. I was raised in a household where I couldn’t say “Damn,” “Fart,” or “Ass.” Two close friends of mine don’t care if their 6 year olds say “fuck.” And honestly, it seems like they have a closer relationship to their kids than I do to my parents (I love them and care for them, but our mode of communication is pretty formal).
Also, I was watching Urotsukidoji, Battle Angel Alita, The Guyver around 11-13 years which is probably way worse.
One of the main characters in hazbin is an anthropomorphic spider prostitute porn star drug addict named “angel dust” who is in a very graphic emotionally, physically and sexually abusive relationship with the porn studio director that’s exploiting them, and one of his major themes is why he hates himself for liking being treated like that.
While not the most graphic show Ive seen (dsspite multiple onscreen dismemberments), it’s easily the most adult oriented cartoon/anime I’ve watched. It’s certainly not geared for children and I would be extremely uncomfortable having a conversation about why people stay with their abusers with a kid. It’s not me being prudish, its that it requires a fuckload of societal context that most adults don’t have in order to be able to discuss it in anything like a mature way, and I don’t want to have to explain things like “the gray areas around coercion and nonconsensual sex” to someone else’s kid in a panel setting. It’s going to be as uncomfortable for them as it is for me when we get to, say, “self harm as expressed through consenting to sexual abuse”.
Thats an easier to explain example, but I certainly don’t want to have to explain the 2000 years of real-world religious bloodshed being evoked with lines like “if hell is forever then that means heaven’s a lie” to a kid, either.
Wouldn’t a kid just not understand what’s happening though? We’ve all experienced watching something again as an adult and being like “ohhhhh THAT’s what it’s about.”
And/or most kids recognize “this character is doing something bad,” even if they don’t understand the context, aren’t we just talking another satanic panic here? Like how it was false alleged CoD or D&D makes kids into serial killers.
I’m not saying kids shouldn’t watch it, though imo they shouldn’t, just that there’s no way I would be comfortable discussing it around a kid.
I think the danger is not in children understanding it, its that they’ll misunderstand it, and with some topics you want to be careful to ensure a kid has the right background context to understand it.
you’ve just convinced me that I must watch this show.
You should, it’s damn good! The sister show, Helluva Boss, is free on youtube and is quite different but also very good and I highly recommend it. (Heads up, Hazbin’s pilot episode is canon and plot critical and on youtube and is not included with the rest of the show, which is on prime video. Watch that first!)
I… you don’t think they could learn from that?
I mean, if it’s really just that it’s too much work to explain, why would it make you uncomfortable?
Why would the panel people be the one’s doing this?
Real question here, you ever worked with any children, or is this idealism? Because the idea that a child could have the relevant background to understand the nuanced motivations of characters in these situations is pretty… well depressing, if we assume that all children are going to have that background.
As an illustrative example, children’s media. It isn’t simplistic because we’re condescending, it’s simplistic because its both to explain simple, fundemental concepts and becasue that’s what kids enjoy. They can relate to it, because it addresses concepts that they have the intellectual capacity and prerequisite understanding to be able to relate to it. This is childhood education at its heart.
I don’t want to explain concpets that most actual adults cant understand, or even discuss in a mature way, to a child. People use “you’ll understand when your older” all too often as an excuse to brush aside questions they just don’t want to take the time to explain, but sometimes it’s because explaining “I hated myself so much I didn’t care what happened with my body which is why I have all these scars that spell out words you hopefully dont know yet on my chest/legs/back” isn’t something a child can understand. And thank fuck for that.
I’ve been around enough to know they respect sometimes not being treated like children.
I’m not saying that a child who’s not ready for something should be forced to deal with it. The role of a parent is to be a safety net they can run back to every time the world gets a little too scary—literally, there are studies about this. But for a child that is ready, who wants to know, what I mean to find out is why you would reject them.
See, the worry I have is that things like this are the reason those adults don’t understand it. In some respects, these adults are still children because they were never given the opportunity to learn.
And it’s not like it can’t be useful to them. The fact that people can be abused, like certain aspects of it, then hate themselves for liking any part of it—I mean, I can think of a few “left alone with uncle” situations that really ring true here. If they can’t understand what they themselves are going through, I really don’t know what hope they have.
Just to reiterate, I’m not saying we should gather up every 4-year-old and show them a snuff film. What I am saying is that, to some degree, growing up is a self-directed process, and when somebody is ready to tackle something, they should at least be given the chance to experiment with those ideas. Even for adults: only as much as they can handle, and a warm, comfortable room when they can’t anymore.