Commander:
- Dockside Extortionist is banned.
- Jeweled Lotus is banned.
- Mana Crypt is banned.
- Nadu, Winged Wisdom is banned.
Good.
I have realized I’m against bans in commander. I think players can and do take care of cards they do not like by just not playing them… fixing the issue that these bans are trying to fix.
I would like to have Commander Vintage which would share the ban list with vintage. Then have just Commander which has its own strict ban last(as it currently exists).
My issue with bans in Commander is that it is just not an effective way to balance a format with no set restrictions. There are so many cards in all of Magic, there is no way to create a properly balanced game without an extensive ban-list that completely changes the identity of the format.
That said, I think your idea of Vintage Commander as a separate thing could be a good one. If people want to self-govern, let them play normal Commander, but if they want something a bit more balanced from the get go they could have Vintage.
@nexguy @MysticKetchup That is valid for insular play groups, it doesn’t work at conventions. And only partially works at stores, they can be a mixed bag.
Then I’d say the convention or store can choose “commander ban list” or “vintage commander ban list”. Their choice. Everyone’s choice. Then people won’t lose cards because they can still play them in vintage commander.
I feel commander is popular enough to have two supported ban lists. Would take some pressure off rule 0 conversations.
Hilarious that Nadu, designed for Commander but released in a Modern set, is now banned in Commander too (after it’s collateral damage in Modern).
Kinda do not agree with the fast mana bans :-/ I understand their reasoning but I haven’t thought they were banworthy at all.
Agreed, in casual play, I haven’t seen mana crypt be a big threat. On a few occasions it was a big reason or direct killer of players running it.
I think all of these are good. Nadu especially. Didn’t see Extortionist coming but that is also probably a good idea.
They hit more fast mana artifacts, which are going to continue to be a problem for EDH as they continue to print more powerful cards. I thought the comment about Sol Ring was interesting:
We should also talk about the elephant in the room. We’re not banning Sol Ring and have no desire to. Yes, based on the criteria we’ve talked about here, it would be banned. Sol Ring is the iconic card of the format, and it’s sufficiently tied to the identity of the format that it defies the laws of physics in a way that no other card does. Banning Sol Ring would be fundamentally changing the identity of the format. We aren’t trying to eliminate all explosive starts—it happening every once in a while is exciting—and removing the other three cards geometrically reduces the number of hands capable of substantial above-curve mana generation in the first few turns.
I think they’re doing things right here.
I would like to see Sol Ring banned, partly because it’s an obviously overpowered card and partly because it reduces space in your deck. Your options are to accept that the real deck construction rules are “Sol Ring plus 98 cards”, or to accept that you’re voluntarily building an underpowered deck, neither of which are satisfactory IMO.
That said, I think it’s interesting that their logic for not banning Sol Ring echoes the reason why I thought Gush shouldn’t have been banned from Pauper: it’s “the iconic card of the format”, and telling people that they’ll get to play it is a good advertisement for the format.
I took the sol Ring out of my rat deck, since it uses so much black mana it ended up showing me down most times.
That’s actually a very fair argument. Except for some mono or 2 colour decks, it runs great in all my decks. It is such a staple that removing it is bad.
Maybe there shouldn’t be cards you “have” to have. Even boots or signets are okay to omit in alot of decks.
There are other staple cards that belong in every deck. Command Tower being the most obvious. Similarly, Fabled Pathway. Most commander decks have several of the similar but weaker cards like Terramorphic expanse. I guess it feels less impactful when it’s lands. Also obviously monocolor decks don’t need these lands.
