You wouldn’t pirate a medicine, would you?
I firmly think this would be a boon for many people; owning one of these is likely a lifeline that even small town physicians could utilize to dispense drugs freely or cheaply to patients in need.
This is something that I think small-town pharmacies could use to create compounds in cases of drug shortages. I think tools and programs and small labs like what are discussed in the article are a positive force for good; and that they should be not only allowed, but encouraged, for many drugs that are expensive, unavailable to someone in need and can be readily synthesized safely with a basic college level of chemistry training by someone in a pharmacy.
I think the potential risks and downsides are small right now; and I think more of it should be encouraged gently so that we can find out quickly what the flaws and limitations are so that we can put regulatory guardrails around it so that people do not harm themselves.
Yeah, one of the meds they talk about making is Vyvanse. That’s having a serious national shortage right now due to a combination of the DEA and corporate greed. It’s illegal for compounding pharmacies to make it but there’s no technical reason they couldn’t. Same for lots of this stuff.
So uh yeah as we all know a lot of amphetamines have already been “open source” for a long time.
And we also know the DEA really doesn’t approve of private production… Vyvanse itself only really was created as a produg because of their control of the amphetamine market and their desire for products with lower abuse potential.
If we could get the DEA out of the way anyways, it would make more sense to just make dextroamphetamine as it’s simple, cheap and effective.
It’s funny because a lot of people really like Vyvanse (that is: lisdexamphetamine) better than the alternatives. It was only made because the DEA wanted fewer people to take regular amphetamines and then a bunch of people responded well to it and the DEA went “wait! Not like that!”
Anyway, it’s on generic now. The only reason there’s a shortage is the DEA.
(Before you say “I’m not in the US and we have a shortage, too!” the drug companies killed all their production lines because the DEA basically gave them an excuse to try to force people off Vyvanse and onto meds that were still under patent.)
Depending on how Vyvanse is Scheduled; it might be legal to privately make. If it’s not scheduled like a standard amphetamine; the DEA is powerless.
I have a sneaking suspicion it’s not illegal to compound this stuff. But IANAL; and it doesn’t matter if the DEA thinks it is and will hassle anyone trying.
I am not a lawyer but as far as I know: it super isn’t. It’s also illegal for compounding pharmacies to make, where I live.
I’m not accounting for State laws; which may in fact be stricter. I’m talking about Federal Laws which might not explicitly forbid such things; so long as they’re done in an actually safe manner by professionals.
But, as I said before, if the DEA believes it has the power to stop that none-the-less; that’s what they will do, without respect to if the law is actually legally unclear or borderline. Unfortunately many pharmaceutical places don’t care to invite the wrath of the DEA; even if what they’re doing could be considered permissible; so long as they do not synthesize an exact drug that the Feds specifically name as a controlled substance.
Again; IANAL either. But I do think there’s a lot of room for small compounding pharmacies to synthesize various drugs to meet a patient’s needs quickly while waiting for proper shipments to arrive. There’s lots of compounds that are life-sustaining that do not fall under the DEA banner of authority.
That would be great. My insurance was already not covering Vyvanse super well, but I at least had the extra coupon thing from Vyvanse that was getting it under $80 per month. But the start of this year Vyvanse stopped the coupon since there was a generic and my insurance was also pushing that. Which I didn’t realize was a thing until I was about a week and a half past my refill and just kept getting auto calls from Walgreens that it was delayed.
Found out it was because the generic was on back order and they literally didn’t know when they (or any location in my county or the next one over) would even get it. So I had to demand that they just fill the name brand since I can’t function at work. The pharmacist was like “It will be over $200, are you sure you don’t want to wait?”. And all I could say was “Not like I really have a choice atm if I want to have my meds.” Which while the price was (and still is) fucked. I am glad I didn’t just keep waiting. I just said to put it on my file that I request the name brand if the generic isn’t available.
It does seem that the insurance has also seen this happening to a fuck ton of people as they are back to at least covering what they were before. Which is still costing me around $125 or so a month since Vyvanse didn’t re-instate their coupon. I had thought about going back to Adderall, but it doesn’t last as long and I have heard there have been shortages for both name brand and generic before Vyvanse and its generic.
Man, in lots of places the you can’t even get the name brand so at least there’s that.
I have heard, don’t know how true it is, that hospital pharmacies have first shot at the supplies so they’re less affected by stuff like this. For what that’s worth.
For sure. It might be that my city has a regional hospital in addition to being pretty close to a much larger city with multiple hospitals. Also likely helps that the larger city nearby has an airport which UPS and Fedex (might also have others) hubs in it. Along with those shipping companies having big ground sorting/shipping facilities in the same city.
I can currently roll with the prices as long as I can still get my meds. Just hoping that the generic versions are able to catch up next year.
Oh shit! We’re getting Ripperdocs!!!
Ok this is pretty cool, I just don’t know if I would trust it yet. I was actually thinking about the concept a bit ago, that I really don’t know what I’m taking if my doctor prescribes something to me… I do really like the concept, though.
Lab synthesis had it’s own set of problems. Imo, isolation of the"active" agent being one. Slippery elm and white willow teas don’t taste good, but maybe the “inactive” ingredients work with the active ingredient in ways that are simply not studied.
You wouldn’t pirate a medicine, would you?
You wouldnt’ pirate a human thought would you? The basis of this entire sub, that one pile of neurons deserves for life the rights to a computation.
…Are you a bot? Your account is less than a day old and this comment… almost made sense. But what the heck does this mean?
…that one pile of neurons deserves for life the rights to a computation.
Ideas/art/concepts/recipes/books are just waiting around to be discovered. We as a species discover them or develop them from our shared culture. And a bunch of rich fucks think they should get perpetual rights because they own all the content mills/researchers, regardless of how much the rest of the species would benefit.
I just wrote it because it rhymed with the now memed 2004 anti piracy announcement You wouldn’t download a car that was rightfully criticized.
now we just need nile red to synthesize insulin. We’ll be set once that happens.
I’m going to stick to europe
I’m in Europe and can’t get my meds either
Oh? Where do you happen to be?
NL
Learning how to navigate the healthcare system here can be quite a drag, but it’s great once you have. I am kinda curious now tho what kind of care you’re not able to get
I’m trans. Giving up on the system has been good for me. It was like a one sided relationship. Now when I need something I just solve it on my own and it works.
Wait trans care isn’t decent here? I didn’t expect that. How would you get medication without a prescription?
Then you’ll also be surprised to learn that I am insulted constantly and laughed at. Don’t get me wrong, there are lots of great people, but it is naive to think the Netherlands is a tolerant place. When you go through the medical system you face the same attitudes.
The issue is, if you believe in the system, you’ll give it a chance to traumatize you. This is added on top of other traumas such as losing your family, becoming homeless and so on. The trans thing itself isn’t actually the biggest part of it, it’s the culture and the society.
Sure, you could get lucky and have the right gp and meet the right psychiatrist, and then you have to wait 5 years before you get any medical support. I’ve tried. I mean I’ve literally been at a gp that I knew was trans friendly and I told her I was at risk of suicide, and she was OK with that.
And about the medicine, well you can compound it yourself. I honestly can’t live without it, because it is night and day for my mental wellbeing. Without it, it is extremely difficult to live. It’s like you’re in a state of dissociation and it’s painful. It’s quite a complex thing to describe, but you are effectively disabled and are at risk of suicide.
I have a friend in Portugal who uses semaglutide that’s compounded by a local pharmacy for about 35euros a month. I, in Canada still pay $230/month for Ozempic. For $120/month I could take a 2.5mg dose similar to Wegovy which in Canada right now is $400ish
Its the same drug, just no prefilled pen. All these pharmacies that offer it in Europe aren’t accessible from North America without a vpn, and then once accessible refuse to ship to Canada.
You know what? Yeah I wouldn’t pirate a medicine. They got me this time.
I would not trust that the pills he was throwing out to the crowd were legit. But if an independent third party could verify the drug, why not.
Also, I am not suffering from anything that is too expensive to fix. Maybe if I was desperate and not rich, I’d have a different opinion.
Wouldn’t “right to repair” regarding medicine just be universal healthcare?
Most people in right to repair states/countries still bring their iPhone to someone to fix (though they have the right to fix it themselves just as people I guess have the right to try to fix themselves rather than go to a doctor).
I don’t think you fully understand right to repair.
Companies (most egregiously Apple, but Samsung, Microsoft, and other tech, farming, and medical companies as well) have been actively introducing barriers to self or third-party repairs for decades. Apple serializes their displays on iPhones, so if you were to swap the screen on an iPhone without Apple’s authorization or without specific hardware, your iPhone disables specific features on your new screen, even if it’s a genuine Apple part. Apple also has incredibly unfair and invasive contracts with their authorized service providers such that they have to provide a slower return window than Apple’s own service centers. Furthermore, Apple et al. don’t sell every part needed to fix phones, and even when they do sell parts, they are often sold as packages or bundles that make the parts unnecessarily expensive.
To be clear, it’s rare for companies to ban third-party repairs outright. However, the vast majority of device makers artificially limit who can buy spare parts and who can fix their devices via software, by tight supply chain control, lawsuits, or getting governments to seize the few parts that could be obtained. This means that most third-party stores can’t compete with manufacturers because they can’t get genuine parts without becoming “authorized”, and by becoming authorized, they can’t provide a quality service.
Intellectual property is theft. Is there a WikiLeaks for medicine? WikiMeds perhaps?
trans people: first time?
States are absolved of patent law, so I keep hoping the west coast will make a compact where each state makes a major drug for their state health care plans and they share across.
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Good, don’t lol
Lots of people do know a lot about these things and were previously hindered by an inability to manufacture the drugs themselves.
There are plenty of docs and chemists who would willingly do this underground because they actually want to help people.
I would if I could!
I will say, there’s something scary about crafting your own medicine, I’d expect medicine to be highly precisely crafted in labs by highly educated professionals and that it’d be difficult and perhaps dangerous to make and take your own medicine. I could be wrong.
The things they write in the article are amazing, people can make their own life savine cure to hepatitis C for about 70 USD for their whole home made treatment, that just works? It seems too good to be true without any caveats.
Oh and, final thought, “Four Thieves Collective”? They really don’t beat around the bush. I like that
It is easy to make if you have the know how and some equipment, also if it is already known what you need to make. For example, aspirin is known structurally (unless I am mistaken), so if you have the chemistry know-how and equipment, you can make your own.
However the tricky part is to get it as a safe medicine to take, that you do not have impurities that could be dangerous, toxic. You will need to be able to make quality and safety checks like that. Which I am not sure how easy that really is.
White willow bark and devil’s claw root contain naturally occurring salicylic acid, similar to aspirin. Better, but it tastes funky.
Nothing wrong with homemade medicine. Just know what you’re doing. I’ve used many, on myself and now adult child. Grandparents on both sides taught me. Their’s taught them. I’ve used comfrey to heal deep wounds on friendly strays.
Along the same line of pain management did you know that pretty much all the poppy seed (for ornamental flowers) you can buy at any garden store are opium poppies? You can grow them easily, then macerate the whole plant and extract in off the shelf alcohol and strain it for essentially laudanum which is great for a sleep aide or pain in low to moderate doses. Quite safe as well, obviously if you don’t abuse it.
Four Thieves vinegar was supposedly used by four grave robbers to protect them from bubonic plague, each thief added their own herb to the infusion. It apparently worked well enough, they negotiated their freedom by giving up the recipe.
Nowadays, people vary the herbs, garlic is the constant.
It’s no secret herbs like oregano (most savory herbs actually) have antimicrobial properties. When you’re poor and a doctor’s visit is a day or more lost pay, the daycare is paid regardless of attendance, then the uninsured cost of the visit and pharmaceuticals, you learn.
That’s such a cool backstory, thanks!
You’re welcome.
I’d expect medicine to be highly precisely crafted in labs by highly educated professionals and that it’d be difficult and perhaps dangerous to make and take your own medicine. I could be wrong.
You’re not wrong—all of 4TVC’s work is extremely dangerous. Not as dangerous as you’d think, though. And, compared to living a life crushed by debilitating disease or debt, do those risks outweigh the outcome? Probably not.
It certainly sounds like it should be more difficult than that (and as far as I, a non-medical professional, know it is) but keep in mind the pharmaceutical industry is worth billions to a select few, and keep in mind back when Eli Lilly’s Twitter was hacked and posted insulin, a substance that costing some people over $1000/month just to live, would be free, their stock dropped 4.37% the next day.
Like I said, I’m no medical anything but like with previous products that have claimed to be medically beneficial, I think it’s worth at least taking a step back and looking at what someone stands to gain by claiming something vital is simple versus what those who claim otherwise stand to lose.
After all, I think we’ve all heard the story of the doctor who, in a fit of desperation, cured his wife’s cancer with bicarbonate of soda and then did so with more of his patients before being sued by Big Pharma.
Hack? It’s not even that. Just musk in his infinite wisdom enabling pay-to-get-checkmark on Xitter so all the fake/satire accounts immediately jumped on the opportunity.
Oh, was that it? I’d heard someone had hacked the EL Twitter account. That’s even dumber. Thanks for the correction and highlighting how much dumber the fallout was, luckily my misunderstanding didn’t take away from the main point.
HAHA no! Someone literally just changed their twitter handle, display name and avatar, then bought a blue check, and THAT’S IT.
The CLR (the reactor to create the medicine) costs about US$300-500 to make according to their website. Then there’s actually figuring out the software. They don’t sell recipes,as it were, so there’s time involved as well.
I’ve been poking around their site tonight after I saw this posted to another community. It’s worth looking at, imho.
I was expecting a NileRed video of him extracting meds from batteries or anal lube or something
And you know what bloody sucks? ADHD meds are one of the few that you can not and probably should not make at home. Why? Without watching the whole video, I can tell you the medication he can’t get ahold of is Lisdexamphetamine. The precursor chemicals of which are the same as for Methamphetamine. It’s also in the same schedule as opiates. So I’d imagine that even the guy the article is about wouldn’t mess around with those publicly, and perhaps even privately as the DEA heavily monitors sales of the precursors.
I’m so fucking sick of the meds that make my brain work being out of stock :(
I remember reading an article a month or two ago about a guy ordering a bunch of precursor amphetamines from China, and the distributor was able to route them through Mexico. He called it “simple” to acquire.
“Simple” for the everyday home chemist? Or “simple” for someone who is already a drug dealer…?
Try Adzenys.
I like it better than adderall and I haven’t experienced any shortage where I am in the states, while friends can’t get their Addy.
The shortage is happening internationally. I am in Australia. I would have to pay money to see a psychiatrist again to change meds. I would need to restart a 12 month period where my GP can’t be the prescriber.
Prescription medication advertisements are illegal here too, so I think I just extra don’t appreciate unsolicited medication advice. I get you’re trying to be helpful. However, I did not ask for help.
OK good luck
I’ve tried enough meds in my life to know which ones work. Vyvanse is the only things that does. But if you mean it genuinely, while it’s in stock atm I’ve been skipping some days a week. I now have a 3 month supply saved up so 🤞
No, I do mean that genuinely.
Your initial reply rubbed me the wrong way since I was trying to help but that doesn’t mean I don’t wish you luck! Everyone’s situation is different and i know fuck-all about Australia’s healthcare system lol
Incredible video.
