okay but we’re not talking about another subsection… we’re talking about men. you can insert whatever qualifier in front that makes you feel better about it, but you wouldn’t be making this comment if they were talking about another group. this is a problem among young men. we need to be able to talk about it if we want anything to change.
obviously if you insert a marginalized group in place of a dominant one it will be different. that is how that works, yes. this type of comment only derails from genuine concerns.
misandry? sure buddy, I really hold some deep hatred for men. or maybe the messaging men grow up on is toxic and ends up leading to women facing actual discrimination and violence. no such thing is happening in the other direction. women avoiding men for their own safety may hurt, but it’s not the same thing.
and why are we pretending that there’s some anti men agenda here? because a woman wasn’t careful enough with her phrasing, she didn’t say “some” men? everybody knows the numbers on inter gender violence. nobody is saying you are personally responsible. but anytime women express that men make them feel unsafe, every man in the room makes it about him. I love men, but I need to approach carefully to ensure they haven’t been Tatepilled before I get close. many women are just sticking with their girlfriends. why is this controversial?
it’s really frustrating to me honestly. I’m a trans woman. I’ve been on both sides of this conversation, and I’ve been on both sides of the equation. I’ve been a problematic man. I’ve been a healthy man. and now I’m not a man. I know how painful it is to constantly be perceived as a threat, and it hurt even more because I didn’t even want to be a man in the first place. but this argument comes up anytime a woman talks about her experiences and resulting outlook, and it’s just not productive because ultimately women are the ones in danger, while men are lonely and upset. not every man is a threat, but it’s enough of them that women need to be careful, and most of them got better at hiding their problems rather than actually going to therapy. women would love just as much as men to stop having these gendered associations and live and love freely. men need to hold each other accountable, we need to change the way we teach them, and importantly, they need to listen when women talk about these things instead of talking over them.
There is no “being careful with phrasing”. You and your cohort essentially start every sentence with “Men…” this or “Men…” that. It doesn’t matter what point you think you’re trying to make. You automatically invalidate it by arguing about all men and disregarding individuality. That’s misandry. Get it in your head.
my cohort? lmfao dude. I don’t KNOW every individual man but I have to be careful no matter who it is. that’s not misandry. men are scared of being lonely or perceived as threatening or being made fun of. women are scared of being raped and killed. nobody called you a rapist, dude, but we can’t trust blindly.
Then why not talk about rapists ? It’s so easy to exclude people who aren’t part of that group, just name and shame the damn group instead of a super-category they belong to.
how am I to know whether any given man is a rapist? we’re talking about men here because women need to be careful around all men. I don’t hate men, I generally love them; nobody wants to have to be this careful. Andrew Tate being as popular as he was only scares people more. because of all this, many women have given up on looking for male partners. I can’t really blame them; in many places, the risk is high.
Yes, but you’re talking about IRL situations. Why can’t you differentiate online? It’s so easy to say that you need to be careful because of rapists. Instead you spread a message of being careful around all men. It’s disingenuous, and it leads to ostracization and a loneliness epidemic like the one that’s currently and actively fuelling the movements you despise.
you’re gonna blame women’s traumatic responses for that? no woman made Andrew Tate say or do any of the things he did. he made his own choices. I get that men are lonely, and it sucks, but women lowering their guards puts them at serious risk. that’s why they talk about needing to be careful around men. again, we cannot tell who is and is not a rapist by looking at them. if men want to stop being lonely, the first step is to break down the walls between each other. women cuddle with their friends, share their closest feelings, cry, and find emotional intimacy in each other when they can’t turn to men. men need to do the same when they can’t turn to women. this is not an easy problem to solve, as men have been taught to repress their feelings, and telling women to just put themselves at risk so men don’t have to be lonely is unfair. it’s not our job to fix broken men, and it never has been. they need therapy. when it is safer for women, they will stop acting so cautious. until then, you will unfortunately have to deal with women coming across cold and aloof because they don’t want to risk their safety. it is always possible to overcome this in individual relationships, but the broader pattern won’t change as long as women feel unsafe.
okay but we’re not talking about another subsection… we’re talking about men. you can insert whatever qualifier in front that makes you feel better about it, but you wouldn’t be making this comment if they were talking about another group. this is a problem among young men. we need to be able to talk about it if we want anything to change.
obviously if you insert a marginalized group in place of a dominant one it will be different. that is how that works, yes. this type of comment only derails from genuine concerns.
The irony being that those are their genuine concerns.
There’s nothing genuine about your rotten misandry. Take it, and yourself, out of here.
misandry? sure buddy, I really hold some deep hatred for men. or maybe the messaging men grow up on is toxic and ends up leading to women facing actual discrimination and violence. no such thing is happening in the other direction. women avoiding men for their own safety may hurt, but it’s not the same thing.
and why are we pretending that there’s some anti men agenda here? because a woman wasn’t careful enough with her phrasing, she didn’t say “some” men? everybody knows the numbers on inter gender violence. nobody is saying you are personally responsible. but anytime women express that men make them feel unsafe, every man in the room makes it about him. I love men, but I need to approach carefully to ensure they haven’t been Tatepilled before I get close. many women are just sticking with their girlfriends. why is this controversial?
it’s really frustrating to me honestly. I’m a trans woman. I’ve been on both sides of this conversation, and I’ve been on both sides of the equation. I’ve been a problematic man. I’ve been a healthy man. and now I’m not a man. I know how painful it is to constantly be perceived as a threat, and it hurt even more because I didn’t even want to be a man in the first place. but this argument comes up anytime a woman talks about her experiences and resulting outlook, and it’s just not productive because ultimately women are the ones in danger, while men are lonely and upset. not every man is a threat, but it’s enough of them that women need to be careful, and most of them got better at hiding their problems rather than actually going to therapy. women would love just as much as men to stop having these gendered associations and live and love freely. men need to hold each other accountable, we need to change the way we teach them, and importantly, they need to listen when women talk about these things instead of talking over them.
There is no “being careful with phrasing”. You and your cohort essentially start every sentence with “Men…” this or “Men…” that. It doesn’t matter what point you think you’re trying to make. You automatically invalidate it by arguing about all men and disregarding individuality. That’s misandry. Get it in your head.
my cohort? lmfao dude. I don’t KNOW every individual man but I have to be careful no matter who it is. that’s not misandry. men are scared of being lonely or perceived as threatening or being made fun of. women are scared of being raped and killed. nobody called you a rapist, dude, but we can’t trust blindly.
Then why not talk about rapists ? It’s so easy to exclude people who aren’t part of that group, just name and shame the damn group instead of a super-category they belong to.
how am I to know whether any given man is a rapist? we’re talking about men here because women need to be careful around all men. I don’t hate men, I generally love them; nobody wants to have to be this careful. Andrew Tate being as popular as he was only scares people more. because of all this, many women have given up on looking for male partners. I can’t really blame them; in many places, the risk is high.
Yes, but you’re talking about IRL situations. Why can’t you differentiate online? It’s so easy to say that you need to be careful because of rapists. Instead you spread a message of being careful around all men. It’s disingenuous, and it leads to ostracization and a loneliness epidemic like the one that’s currently and actively fuelling the movements you despise.
you’re gonna blame women’s traumatic responses for that? no woman made Andrew Tate say or do any of the things he did. he made his own choices. I get that men are lonely, and it sucks, but women lowering their guards puts them at serious risk. that’s why they talk about needing to be careful around men. again, we cannot tell who is and is not a rapist by looking at them. if men want to stop being lonely, the first step is to break down the walls between each other. women cuddle with their friends, share their closest feelings, cry, and find emotional intimacy in each other when they can’t turn to men. men need to do the same when they can’t turn to women. this is not an easy problem to solve, as men have been taught to repress their feelings, and telling women to just put themselves at risk so men don’t have to be lonely is unfair. it’s not our job to fix broken men, and it never has been. they need therapy. when it is safer for women, they will stop acting so cautious. until then, you will unfortunately have to deal with women coming across cold and aloof because they don’t want to risk their safety. it is always possible to overcome this in individual relationships, but the broader pattern won’t change as long as women feel unsafe.