I bet there’s kings and emperors in the past that would have loved to be able to get all children to swear an oath of fealty every morning. And others that would have considered the whole idea a ridiculous overreach.
In high school I stopped saying it. Even stopped standing for it. Ironically, it was a US History class where the teacher got pissed.
She didn’t make us recite it, but she made us stand for it.
To this day, I still fucking hate it. I hate it’s origin. It’s goal. And the red scare bullshit that forced “under God” in it. I think it’s a sign of a failed country. That a nation that requires a pledge isn’t doing enough to make people want to be patriotic on their own. That it says I follow my marching orders, whether or not I disagree. That to me, it removes agency and encouragement to dissent and work to make the country better. It reinforces there is a ruling class running the government and a serf class that does the ruling classes will.
Some schools will definitely try to get you expelled for that. Luckily mine didn’t give a shit, but there are plenty of stories of school faculty threatening children over it
Got threatened in a small farm town for sitting down during the pledge. Sent to the principal about it a couple times and then you just become the kid that doesn’t do it and everyone says is an idiot.
I don’t know where you would have to live for free speech to not work as an argument where they care so much about the pledge to expel you over it.
At my school people who didn’t say it were separated into In-School-Suspension and were ineligible for any AP courses, extracurriculars, or actual teaching (ISS was 100% worksheet-based).
If that was a public school, that’s actually illegal. There’s a giant stack of court precedent about it, including at least one SCOTUS ruling – you cannot punish or treat a student differently for refusing to participate in compelled political speech, and the Pledge specifically has been tested in this regard and you can’t force that. Some parent (or recent graduate who has turned 18) needs to sue that school system ASAP.
In many parts of the United States, if any parent or child sued over mandating the Pledge of Allegiance, their family would have to flee town for their own safety, after which the local judge would throw out the case for lack of standing because the student isn’t enrolled anymore.
Laws are pieces of paper. They mean what the men with guns say they mean. And in red America, the men with guns say shut up and salute the flag.
Personally, I think it should go a step further and people in positions of authority over children shouldn’t even be able to pressure them into this kind of shit.
That’s not what they said. Pressure isn’t the same as a requirement. The only (legally permitted) consequences for refusing to say the pledge are that some people might be mad at you.
Seems a little weird that a country that blows hard about “freedom” and “democracy” forces you to recite a loyalty oath every day.
I bet there’s kings and emperors in the past that would have loved to be able to get all children to swear an oath of fealty every morning. And others that would have considered the whole idea a ridiculous overreach.
You’re not forced, just socially obliged to do so. I was one of the kids who stopped in high school.
In high school I stopped saying it. Even stopped standing for it. Ironically, it was a US History class where the teacher got pissed.
She didn’t make us recite it, but she made us stand for it.
To this day, I still fucking hate it. I hate it’s origin. It’s goal. And the red scare bullshit that forced “under God” in it. I think it’s a sign of a failed country. That a nation that requires a pledge isn’t doing enough to make people want to be patriotic on their own. That it says I follow my marching orders, whether or not I disagree. That to me, it removes agency and encouragement to dissent and work to make the country better. It reinforces there is a ruling class running the government and a serf class that does the ruling classes will.
Some schools will definitely try to get you expelled for that. Luckily mine didn’t give a shit, but there are plenty of stories of school faculty threatening children over it
Got threatened in a small farm town for sitting down during the pledge. Sent to the principal about it a couple times and then you just become the kid that doesn’t do it and everyone says is an idiot.
I don’t know where you would have to live for free speech to not work as an argument where they care so much about the pledge to expel you over it.
At my school people who didn’t say it were separated into In-School-Suspension and were ineligible for any AP courses, extracurriculars, or actual teaching (ISS was 100% worksheet-based).
If that was a public school, that’s actually illegal. There’s a giant stack of court precedent about it, including at least one SCOTUS ruling – you cannot punish or treat a student differently for refusing to participate in compelled political speech, and the Pledge specifically has been tested in this regard and you can’t force that. Some parent (or recent graduate who has turned 18) needs to sue that school system ASAP.
Your faith in the U.S. legal system is touching.
In many parts of the United States, if any parent or child sued over mandating the Pledge of Allegiance, their family would have to flee town for their own safety, after which the local judge would throw out the case for lack of standing because the student isn’t enrolled anymore.
Laws are pieces of paper. They mean what the men with guns say they mean. And in red America, the men with guns say shut up and salute the flag.
Personally, I think it should go a step further and people in positions of authority over children shouldn’t even be able to pressure them into this kind of shit.
“social pressure isn’t actual pressure”
What?
That’s not what they said. Pressure isn’t the same as a requirement. The only (legally permitted) consequences for refusing to say the pledge are that some people might be mad at you.