No. I want the IDF to be given the weapons to finish off Hamas. The Palestinians have no future while Hamas rules in Gaza, and the IDF are the only military force in the world with both the capacity and motivation to destroy Hamas - it certainly won’t come from Palestinians themselves. Israel can’t plausibly be expected to allow Gaza or the West Bank to become a state if that means Hamas coming to power.
When the problem is that Hamas only exists in the context of isreal’s genocide of the palastinian people, yeah. Calling for their defeat is calling for a continuation of that genocide dumbass. Maybe if you hopped off your murder train for 5 seconds to consider the history of why a terrorist group like Hamas exists in the first place you might have a human thought on the matter. But that requires empathy. Empathy for a people who have been murdered, displaced, and put behind a wall. Empathy for a people you have been told your whole life are brainless, heartless, brown terrorists with no goal but the elimination of Jewish folk instead of what they really are. People. People who have been abused by a colonist state for 80 years, fighting back against that state in the only way they can anymore.
Hamas shouldn’t exist, but Israel made the conditions where a group like Hamas will exist. And as long as the palastinians continue to exist and exist under apartheid, then Hamas or similar groups will continue to exist. This leaves you with 2 options. A. Give them their God damn land back and let them have their own independent state. B. Genocide.
Calling for anything other than option A is to call for genocide. Even if you don’t see it that way, that’s the reality of these situations. There’s history to show this, it isn’t the first apartheid state in existence. It isn’t the first ever genocide. We know how this goes. And history will remember it as such.
Alright I’m gonna educate your fucking dumbass then. My ex is a Palestinian born in an UNRWA refugee camp in Beirut, my best mate is an East London-born Jew who lost dozens of relatives in the Holocaust. So before you respond, temporarily shut the fuck up, listen, learn, consider it, and then ponder whether you have anything to actually contribute. Yeah? Grand.
When the problem is that Hamas only exists in the context of isreal’s genocide of the palastinian people, yeah.
Hamas was founded in 1987. Its founding document calls for pushing the Jews into the sea. Unless you’re about to play the white man useful idiot and say 'oh but they released a new version which refers to ‘Zionists’ not ‘Jews’ in which case just walk off a cliff.
There is no evidence whatsoever that Hamas would be happy with anything less than the ethnic cleansing of the vast majority of Jews from Israel. We could debate what that fact means, but there’s no debate that it is a fact. I’m not going to entertain claims that Hamas is interested in a two-state solution, in case you want to try that angle. I’m not stupid enough to entertain that idea.
Let’s move on.
Calling for their defeat is calling for a continuation of that genocide dumbass.
Before Hamas came to power, Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza. They used the army to pull Jews kicking and screaming from the homes their ancestors had lived in for thousands of years in Gaza. They disinterred Jewish graves, reburying them within Israel’s recognised boundaries you fucking idiot.
There has been no genocide. Even the so-called ‘Nakba’ doesn’t even put a figure to the dead, the number is so low. About 700,000 Arabs either fled or were expelled during the 1947 civil war and 1948 independence war of Israel following the United Nations-backed decision to recognise a State of Israel. In the following few years, some 850,000 Jews either fled or were expelled from the rest of the Middle East, almost all of whom came to Israel because it was the only option, and is why the majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi (Arab) Jews.
In 1947 in India, with no United Nations recognition, the country was partitioned at the behest of its people to create what we now have: India and Pakistan. Some 20 million people were displaced, and nearly a million were killed in the violence and slaughter that ensued.
Does that get you enthused? Ha! Of course it doesn’t. We both know you don’t give a shit about those million dead in India/Pakistan, you only care about the ones where Jews are involved.
But that requires empathy. Empathy for a people who have been murdered, displaced, and put behind a wall.
Do you mean the Gazan or West Bank Arabs? Because the Gazans is fairly straightforward: Israel pulled out, disinterred the Jewish graves, ripped Jews from their family homes of hundreds of years, and gave the Gazans a UN-backed and verified free and democratic vote.
They voted for Hamas. Who swiftly sent their Palestinian ‘comrades’ on very long walks off very tall but very slim buildings.
Hamas then began, for example, to take the highly productive and profitable vegetable greenhouses created by Gazan Jews and rip them up to use their materials for rockets, such that within about a year or so of the withdrawal the Palestinians had destroyed one of their best opportunities for prosperity. I guess that’s worth it if you can kill Jews by doing so, right?
Empathy for a people you have been told your whole life are brainless, heartless, brown terrorists with no goal but the elimination of Jewish folk instead of what they really are. People. People who have been abused by a colonist state for 80 years, fighting back against that state in the only way they can anymore.
Oh fuck off with the phony emotional language. My ex-girlfriend was born in an UNRWA refugee camp in Beirut, which I’ve visited. I’m not interested in this soppy western leftist shit.
Rape is not resistance. The Palestinians invented the use of children as suicide bombers. Israeli mothers sent their children to school on separate school buses because they knew that if a Palestinian detonated a bomb on one then at least one of their children would survive.
A Palestinian suicide bombing at a pizzeria in downtown Jerusalem on 9 August 2001 killed 16 people, including seven children and a pregnant woman. A further 130 were wounded. The attack occurred during the Second Intifada.
After the suicide bombing, Palestinian university students at the An-Najah University in the West Bank city of Nablus created an exhibition celebrating the first anniversary of the Second Intifada.[25][26] The exhibit’s main attraction was a room-sized re-enactment of the bombing at Sbarro. The installation featured broken furniture splattered with fake blood and human body parts.[25] The entrance to the exhibition was illustrated with a mural depicting the bombing. The exhibit was later shut down by Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.[27]
How lovely. What humanistic freedom fighters we have on display here.
Thankfully many of the organisers were killed in the years thereafter.
Hamas shouldn’t exist, but Israel made the conditions where a group like Hamas will exist. And as long as the palastinians continue to exist and exist under apartheid, then Hamas or similar groups will continue to exist. This leaves you with 2 options. A. Give them their God damn land back and let them have their own independent state. B. Genocide.
Netanyahu was not elected as Israeli PM until 1996-1999, briefly. So you’re presumably referring to 2009-onwards when he was re-elected PM.
What do you make of Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak’s 2008 offer, mirroring the December 2000 Cliton Parameter offer, to Mahmoud Abbas of a sovereign Palestinian state in 100% of Gaza, about 97% of the West bank with the largest Jewish settlements on the border annexed and equivalent land given to Palestine to compensate for it, with full aerospace sovereignty, etc? Was that a bad offer? Did Mahmoud Abbas make a mistake in rejecting it in 2008 just as he did twice in 2000?
This leaves you with 2 options. A. Give them their God damn land back and let them have their own independent state. B. Genocide.
They have land: in Gaza and the West Bank. They simply have to make the choice to recognise this. If they want to claim a separate sovereign state’s land, i.e. Israel’s, they’re welcome to declare war. They just don’t get to cry when they get their shit pushed in by Israel.
Calling for anything other than option A is to call for genocide. Even if you don’t see it that way, that’s the reality of these situations. There’s history to show this, it isn’t the first apartheid state in existence. It isn’t the first ever genocide. We know how this goes. And history will remember it as such.
The word ‘genocide’ was first coined by a Jew in order to find a word to describe the systematic extermination of 2/3 of European Jews within a span of less than 10 years. Even today, it’s not clear that the total number of Jews globally has returned to the pre-Holoacust level.
Conversely, the population of Palestinian Arabs has more than quadrupled – this being, by the way, the same population which openly sided with Hitler and enthusiastically endorsed, imbibed, and reproduced Hitler’s Nazi propaganda across the Middle East, such was their hatred of Jews, which is why even today so many Palestinisns are huge fans of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis.
Here’s a great photo of the Grand Mufti of Jersualem, Imam Hajj Amin al-Husseini, being best buds with Adolf Hitler in opposite chairs.
Should we go further? Aw, yeah, you’re right. Let’s go further.
Fun fact: Your boy, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem? He was sought for indictment as a war criminal for his role in recruiting Muslim volunteers for the Nazi German SS during WW2 but escaped from French detention in 1946.
Ya boy also published an interesting pamphlet at some point between 1941-45 titled ‘Islam and Judaism’. It was directed at Muslim recruits of the Nazi German SS, whom he supported with balls-deep enthusiasm. In the booklet, al-Husseini emphasized the superiority of Islam over Judaism, stating that it is unworthy to mention Islam in the same breath as Judaism. He freely paraphrased Qur’anic passages without reference to sura and verse, and included apparent quotations that are not found in the Qur’an. This booklet was intended to demonize Jews and Judaism, reflecting both al-Husseini’s poor religious credentials and his conviction that the pamphlet would not be subjected to critical scrutiny.
I was going to ask what your alternative solution was, but then I realised you’re just going to say ‘A single state in which Muslims and Jews live in equality’ and that at no point in typing out that sentence would you realise how fucking laughably stupid that idea is.
I see… so this isn’t really about the law, it’s about the values that you think those laws uphold.
What Israel is doing is in violation of several international laws. Couldn’t one say that protests like these are what “tends to happen when you knowingly break the law”? Then it’s just a matter of which value you hold higher: the laws that these protesters faced, or the not-forcibly-ousting-a-population laws.
So it’s not an Elbit Systems factory, it’s a separate French-owned company which owner company has a separate contract with Elbit Systems, and the article doesn’t actually say what this particular factory produces, who it sells to, or what the financial value of it is.
Great. Really cleared that up.
How much of the UK’s annual total of £18.2m in arms exports to Israel comes from this factory?
Tends to happen when you knowingly break the law
How fucking smug. If only we were all as brave as you.
I don’t agree with their methods or their objectives, so I don’t see anything to praise here as ‘brave’.
you don’t agree with their objective of protesting sale of drones to the IDF?
No. I want the IDF to be given the weapons to finish off Hamas. The Palestinians have no future while Hamas rules in Gaza, and the IDF are the only military force in the world with both the capacity and motivation to destroy Hamas - it certainly won’t come from Palestinians themselves. Israel can’t plausibly be expected to allow Gaza or the West Bank to become a state if that means Hamas coming to power.
Damn. Mans just out here calling for genocide just straight up.
Advocating for the defeat of Hamas is ‘calling for genocide’?
lmao
When the problem is that Hamas only exists in the context of isreal’s genocide of the palastinian people, yeah. Calling for their defeat is calling for a continuation of that genocide dumbass. Maybe if you hopped off your murder train for 5 seconds to consider the history of why a terrorist group like Hamas exists in the first place you might have a human thought on the matter. But that requires empathy. Empathy for a people who have been murdered, displaced, and put behind a wall. Empathy for a people you have been told your whole life are brainless, heartless, brown terrorists with no goal but the elimination of Jewish folk instead of what they really are. People. People who have been abused by a colonist state for 80 years, fighting back against that state in the only way they can anymore.
Hamas shouldn’t exist, but Israel made the conditions where a group like Hamas will exist. And as long as the palastinians continue to exist and exist under apartheid, then Hamas or similar groups will continue to exist. This leaves you with 2 options. A. Give them their God damn land back and let them have their own independent state. B. Genocide.
Calling for anything other than option A is to call for genocide. Even if you don’t see it that way, that’s the reality of these situations. There’s history to show this, it isn’t the first apartheid state in existence. It isn’t the first ever genocide. We know how this goes. And history will remember it as such.
Alright I’m gonna educate your fucking dumbass then. My ex is a Palestinian born in an UNRWA refugee camp in Beirut, my best mate is an East London-born Jew who lost dozens of relatives in the Holocaust. So before you respond, temporarily shut the fuck up, listen, learn, consider it, and then ponder whether you have anything to actually contribute. Yeah? Grand.
Hamas was founded in 1987. Its founding document calls for pushing the Jews into the sea. Unless you’re about to play the white man useful idiot and say 'oh but they released a new version which refers to ‘Zionists’ not ‘Jews’ in which case just walk off a cliff.
There is no evidence whatsoever that Hamas would be happy with anything less than the ethnic cleansing of the vast majority of Jews from Israel. We could debate what that fact means, but there’s no debate that it is a fact. I’m not going to entertain claims that Hamas is interested in a two-state solution, in case you want to try that angle. I’m not stupid enough to entertain that idea.
Let’s move on.
Before Hamas came to power, Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza. They used the army to pull Jews kicking and screaming from the homes their ancestors had lived in for thousands of years in Gaza. They disinterred Jewish graves, reburying them within Israel’s recognised boundaries you fucking idiot.
There has been no genocide. Even the so-called ‘Nakba’ doesn’t even put a figure to the dead, the number is so low. About 700,000 Arabs either fled or were expelled during the 1947 civil war and 1948 independence war of Israel following the United Nations-backed decision to recognise a State of Israel. In the following few years, some 850,000 Jews either fled or were expelled from the rest of the Middle East, almost all of whom came to Israel because it was the only option, and is why the majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi (Arab) Jews.
In 1947 in India, with no United Nations recognition, the country was partitioned at the behest of its people to create what we now have: India and Pakistan. Some 20 million people were displaced, and nearly a million were killed in the violence and slaughter that ensued.
Does that get you enthused? Ha! Of course it doesn’t. We both know you don’t give a shit about those million dead in India/Pakistan, you only care about the ones where Jews are involved.
Do you mean the Gazan or West Bank Arabs? Because the Gazans is fairly straightforward: Israel pulled out, disinterred the Jewish graves, ripped Jews from their family homes of hundreds of years, and gave the Gazans a UN-backed and verified free and democratic vote.
They voted for Hamas. Who swiftly sent their Palestinian ‘comrades’ on very long walks off very tall but very slim buildings.
Hamas then began, for example, to take the highly productive and profitable vegetable greenhouses created by Gazan Jews and rip them up to use their materials for rockets, such that within about a year or so of the withdrawal the Palestinians had destroyed one of their best opportunities for prosperity. I guess that’s worth it if you can kill Jews by doing so, right?
Oh fuck off with the phony emotional language. My ex-girlfriend was born in an UNRWA refugee camp in Beirut, which I’ve visited. I’m not interested in this soppy western leftist shit.
Rape is not resistance. The Palestinians invented the use of children as suicide bombers. Israeli mothers sent their children to school on separate school buses because they knew that if a Palestinian detonated a bomb on one then at least one of their children would survive.
Meanwhile, the Palestinians were celebrating museums dedicated to rejoicing at the dozens of civilians murdered in the suicide bombing of the S’Barro restaurant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sbarro_restaurant_suicide_bombing
How lovely. What humanistic freedom fighters we have on display here.
Thankfully many of the organisers were killed in the years thereafter.
Netanyahu was not elected as Israeli PM until 1996-1999, briefly. So you’re presumably referring to 2009-onwards when he was re-elected PM.
What do you make of Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak’s 2008 offer, mirroring the December 2000 Cliton Parameter offer, to Mahmoud Abbas of a sovereign Palestinian state in 100% of Gaza, about 97% of the West bank with the largest Jewish settlements on the border annexed and equivalent land given to Palestine to compensate for it, with full aerospace sovereignty, etc? Was that a bad offer? Did Mahmoud Abbas make a mistake in rejecting it in 2008 just as he did twice in 2000?
They have land: in Gaza and the West Bank. They simply have to make the choice to recognise this. If they want to claim a separate sovereign state’s land, i.e. Israel’s, they’re welcome to declare war. They just don’t get to cry when they get their shit pushed in by Israel.
The word ‘genocide’ was first coined by a Jew in order to find a word to describe the systematic extermination of 2/3 of European Jews within a span of less than 10 years. Even today, it’s not clear that the total number of Jews globally has returned to the pre-Holoacust level.
Conversely, the population of Palestinian Arabs has more than quadrupled – this being, by the way, the same population which openly sided with Hitler and enthusiastically endorsed, imbibed, and reproduced Hitler’s Nazi propaganda across the Middle East, such was their hatred of Jews, which is why even today so many Palestinisns are huge fans of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis.
Here’s a great photo of the Grand Mufti of Jersualem, Imam Hajj Amin al-Husseini, being best buds with Adolf Hitler in opposite chairs.
Should we go further? Aw, yeah, you’re right. Let’s go further.
Fun fact: Your boy, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem? He was sought for indictment as a war criminal for his role in recruiting Muslim volunteers for the Nazi German SS during WW2 but escaped from French detention in 1946.
Ya boy also published an interesting pamphlet at some point between 1941-45 titled ‘Islam and Judaism’. It was directed at Muslim recruits of the Nazi German SS, whom he supported with balls-deep enthusiasm. In the booklet, al-Husseini emphasized the superiority of Islam over Judaism, stating that it is unworthy to mention Islam in the same breath as Judaism. He freely paraphrased Qur’anic passages without reference to sura and verse, and included apparent quotations that are not found in the Qur’an. This booklet was intended to demonize Jews and Judaism, reflecting both al-Husseini’s poor religious credentials and his conviction that the pamphlet would not be subjected to critical scrutiny.
I was going to ask what your alternative solution was, but then I realised you’re just going to say ‘A single state in which Muslims and Jews live in equality’ and that at no point in typing out that sentence would you realise how fucking laughably stupid that idea is.
I see… so this isn’t really about the law, it’s about the values that you think those laws uphold.
What Israel is doing is in violation of several international laws. Couldn’t one say that protests like these are what “tends to happen when you knowingly break the law”? Then it’s just a matter of which value you hold higher: the laws that these protesters faced, or the not-forcibly-ousting-a-population laws.
The government is breaking the law by permitting the sale of these weapons.
What weapons?
https://lemmy.world/comment/11907198
So it’s not an Elbit Systems factory, it’s a separate French-owned company which owner company has a separate contract with Elbit Systems, and the article doesn’t actually say what this particular factory produces, who it sells to, or what the financial value of it is.
Great. Really cleared that up.
How much of the UK’s annual total of £18.2m in arms exports to Israel comes from this factory?
Come on mate, you were really keen on this one.
How much of the UK’s annual total of £18.2m in arms exports to Israel comes from this factory?