So Israel break international law and then Starmer asks Iran to just suck it up, saying it will put the ceasefire in jeopardy, ignoring the fact that Israel just assassinated the lead negotiator. What in the bloody fuck?

  • sabreW4K3@lazysoci.alOP
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    3 months ago

    I agree that Starmer should first and foremost condemn Israel and bring them to justice and that should be the initial position.

    • frankPodmore@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      3 months ago

      I agree Israel should face international justice, so both you and I, and Starmer, are on the same page, there. If Iran does launch some kind of attack on Israel, I think that will delay any justice, while worsening the situation in Gaza and the Middle East (by which I mean, to be clear, lots of people will die, which is the last thing we want). So to me it seems fair to try and persuade everyone involved to solve this diplomatically, which is what Starmer is asking Iran and Israel to do:

      [Starmer] called on all parties to “de-escalate and avoid further regional confrontation”

      Naturally while speaking to Iran, he’s focusing on Iran’s choices, but it’s consistent with his current position calling on Israel to agree to negotiate a ceasefire and allow humanitarian aid into Gaza.

      • whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        3 months ago

        out of interest could you link to a time you’ve called for israel to face international justice outside the context of “iran should also face international justice”?

        • frankPodmore@slrpnk.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          3 months ago

          Can you arbitrarily provide me with evidence of what you think about any given thing with the precise context I think is important? Because, if not, I don’t see why you’d expect this of anyone else.

          • whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            3 months ago

            any given thing

            literally the thing we’re talking about

            the precise context I think is important

            literally any context other than this specific one

             

            if you only ever bring up how israel needs to face international justice in the context of iran facing international justice, it kind of sounds like you don’t really care about israel facing international justice

            • frankPodmore@slrpnk.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              3 months ago

              Do you write down every opinion you have and publish it in case someone asks you to prove that you think it at a later date? That is what you’re asking of me.

              As far as I know, you have the opposite problem. Have you ever demanded international justice for Iran without also demanding it for Israel? Prove it! It’s a ridiculous standard.

              • whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                3 months ago

                my account is 3 days old and your account is over 300 days old

                you’ve been plenty active in feddit.uk over the past few months, which has had plenty of news stories to pick from where it would’ve been a relevant remark, and it’s not like you haven’t spoken about israel during that time, and the harshest thing you’ve had to say about the situation is now, but only in the context of iran also deserving international justice

                • frankPodmore@slrpnk.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  3 months ago

                  Do you think my Lemmy experience represents the totality of my views? Can you give me a specific number of months on Lemmy I can use before it’s fair for me to judge all of your opinions?

                  • whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    0
                    ·
                    3 months ago

                    oh we’re playing the “draw the precise, exact line” game, are we?

                    whatever that line is, a year and multiple times talking specifically about israel seems like enough time to get across a sentiment more negative than “i guess israel is kind of bad, but we can’t be too hasty about these things”

      • sabreW4K3@lazysoci.alOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        3 months ago

        When Starmer went on record as saying Israel the right to defend itself. Where was all the talk about saving lives? Now that it’s a brown nation that has the right to defend itself, you’re calling for de-escalation. Be consistent Frank.

        I’ve seen Starmer condemn Hamas, where has he condemned Israel? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/hamas-david-lammy-gaza-palestinians-john-mcdonnell-b2427321.html

        In fact, while the world watches Israel commits war crimes, Starmer and yourself continue to throw support their way, vocally and otherwise https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/8/uks-new-pm-starmer-calls-for-urgent-need-for-gaza-ceasefire

        Speaking up for people failing to condemn the murdering of innocent men, women and children in shelters, schools and hospitals is abhorrent as far as I’m concerned.

        The world will look back on this and a lot of people should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

        • Mrkawfee@feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          edit-2
          3 months ago

          The Brits haven’t even come to terms with the shit they did in India you think they’ll ever own up to the chaos they’ve caused in the Middle East?

          Just take comfort that the UK is an irrelevance now.

        • Simmy@lemmygrad.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          3 months ago

          I agree with you, however condemning Israel it all ends up like Corbyn, vilified and attacked with qoutes like ‘terrorist sympathizers’ by the mainstream media. I hate the UK media like the plague.

        • frankPodmore@slrpnk.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          3 months ago

          while the world watches Israel commits war crimes, Starmer and yourself continue to throw support their way, vocally and otherwise

          Happy to discuss this or indeed anything with anyone, but I won’t have my views misrepresented. I’ve not said this or anything like it, ever.

          • sabreW4K3@lazysoci.alOP
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            3 months ago

            I’m sorry, how else would you like us to interpret

            I’m struggling to understand what you think he should have said.

            Followed by

            Since you agree with the UK government that it’s best to settle this through the international systems of diplomacy and justice, would it be fair to say you also agree that Iran shouldn’t respond by attacking Israel?

            Especially in light of the links above where Starmer clearly isn’t impartial.

            • GBU_28@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              3 months ago

              Big ole assumption on your part here. You don’t have to cover every side of a situation when you discuss a specific facet.

              Their second quote could certainly be followed by a sentence reflecting on Israel’s massive issues, without losing the consistency of narrative.

            • frankPodmore@slrpnk.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              3 months ago

              I would like you to interpet it at face value. It does not say that I support Israel committing war crimes.