I said voluntary interactions form markets, you said only competitive markets form capitalism, thus voluntarism doesn’t necessarily mean capitalism.
But in real life a market formed by voluntary interactions is competitive, because our time and attention and emotional resource are limited. Even if natural resources, food and such were not.
I would agree that basic principles of ancap do not mean capitalism as leftists describe it. Actually every idea or description of how things would work in ancap involve solutions pretty similar to those left anarchists use.
And since these two ideas have the same set of actual limitations, and leave the same things to personal choice, I’d say there’s no technical difference, only ideological.
Using the term as it is currently defined, not all markets need to be voluntary [1][2].
References
“Market: What It Means in Economics, Types, and Common Features”. Will Kenton. Investopedia. Published: 2024-07-28 (Accessed: 2024-08-22T03:10Z). https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/market.asp.
A market is any place where two or more parties can meet to engage in an economic transaction
Central characteristics of capitalism include […] voluntary exchange […].
But in real life a market formed by voluntary interactions is competitive
Not necessarily. For example, if the market were consumed by anti-competitive entities it is no longer competitive. An example of an anti-competitive entity could be a monopoly. Collusion is another example of a behavior which is not competitive.
I would agree that basic principles of ancap do not mean capitalism as leftists describe it.
How are you defining “leftist” in this context? Anecdotally, the average consensus of those that self-describe as leftists seems to be that they are anti-capitalist. Exactly what that belief entails is beyond my anecdote.
And since these two ideas have the same set of actual limitations, and leave the same things to personal choice, I’d say there’s no technical difference, only ideological.
Using the term as it is currently defined, not all markets need to be voluntary [1][2]
I’m talking about A being a subset of B, you are talking about B being a subset of A.
Capitalism is defined to require that the markets be competitive [1], yes.
Same mistake.
Voluntary exchange is a central characteristic of capitalism [1].
Looked to your reference and - same mistake.
Not necessarily. For example, if the market were consumed by anti-competitive entities it is no longer competitive. An example of an anti-competitive entity could be a monopoly. Collusion is another example of a behavior which is not competitive.
It’s also no longer formed by voluntary interactions.
How are you defining “leftist” in this context?
Integration of my experience with people calling myself that. One can say - people refusing to discuss the possibility of markets not intentionally rigged by some non-market force.
What “two ideas” are you referring to here?
Voluntarism and self-ownership.
You have a glaring problem with logic with the first 4 quotes, it’s not an insult, but makes a discussion hardly possible until fixed, please do.
I said voluntary interactions form markets, you said only competitive markets form capitalism, thus voluntarism doesn’t necessarily mean capitalism.
But in real life a market formed by voluntary interactions is competitive, because our time and attention and emotional resource are limited. Even if natural resources, food and such were not.
I would agree that basic principles of ancap do not mean capitalism as leftists describe it. Actually every idea or description of how things would work in ancap involve solutions pretty similar to those left anarchists use.
And since these two ideas have the same set of actual limitations, and leave the same things to personal choice, I’d say there’s no technical difference, only ideological.
Using the term as it is currently defined, not all markets need to be voluntary [1][2].
References
Capitalism is defined to require that the markets be competitive [1], yes.
References
Voluntary exchange is a central characteristic of capitalism [1].
References
Not necessarily. For example, if the market were consumed by anti-competitive entities it is no longer competitive. An example of an anti-competitive entity could be a monopoly. Collusion is another example of a behavior which is not competitive.
How are you defining “leftist” in this context? Anecdotally, the average consensus of those that self-describe as leftists seems to be that they are anti-capitalist. Exactly what that belief entails is beyond my anecdote.
What “two ideas” are you referring to here?
I’m talking about A being a subset of B, you are talking about B being a subset of A.
Same mistake.
Looked to your reference and - same mistake.
It’s also no longer formed by voluntary interactions.
Integration of my experience with people calling myself that. One can say - people refusing to discuss the possibility of markets not intentionally rigged by some non-market force.
Voluntarism and self-ownership.
You have a glaring problem with logic with the first 4 quotes, it’s not an insult, but makes a discussion hardly possible until fixed, please do.