I agree that Britain needs reform, but my version probably involves putting racist demagogues in the village stocks a bit more than theirs.
They should have been called the revert party, because that’s what they want. They want to take us back to some rose tinted view of the past that never actually existed.
After the D day gaffe, I think the Tories are fucked.
Reform has some good points. It’s unfortunate that the left has completely lost their mind because it would be nice to vote for a sane left party. But the only option for key issues is Reform.
Reform aren’t a real political party. Real political parties have to reveal who donated to them and what their vested interests are in.
Reform is the personal hype machine of Nigel Farage and exists solely to keep that pound shop Oswald Moseley in the newspapers.
As wonderful a sweeping statement as “the left have lost their mind” (said no one who would ever vote left ever) is, its pretty laughable that anyone thinks the corporatist reform party would ever actually lower immigration.
I mean, literally all of the left leaning parties have said they will lower immigration but don’t let that ruin the narrative.
I have exclusively only voted left actually.
The left aren’t doing enough, the Tories have proven they haven’t done enough. That’s why reform makes sense because it sends a message about how much immigration needs to be reduced.
“As a black man…”
Congratulations on being black.
But there isn’t much I can do to convince you to be black or not so it is irrelevant.
Seeing as we are talking about views and information. Then views are are relevant. Also I was directly (and incorrectly) called out for not being a leftie.
I am calling horseshit on you being “a leftie.”
I’m sorry it wasn’t blunt enough the first time.
‘I’d always support [blank], but now they’ve nonspecifically gone too far! so I’m voting for the complete opposite’ is fascist propaganda. What’s it doing in your mouth, comrade?
Let me ask you bluntly then.
What makes a person left leaning vs right leaning? I’m talking minimum standard to be a leftie here not current left or current right parties.
I mean historically what views separate the right from the left?
Why would anyone put effort into spoon-feeding you your own claimed philosophy, when the root comment is generic whining that “the left has completely lost their mind?” Your sole bugbear is immigration (a stereotypical right-wing fixation) and all you’ve done is mumble about “more,” until it’s “enough.”
You don’t even know what valid criticism looks like.
Oh, sorry, you do eventually blame immigrants for housing and wages. Because scapegoating brown people is totes mcgoats the leftist approach to problems with capital.
Course you did and it’s their fault youre voting farrage too…
“Da left” haven’t done anything at all, seeing as they haven’t been in power for over 2 decades. Thats why your claim makes no sense.
Oh, it makes you send a message alright. Although, its not the one you think you’re sending.
Why would I lie about voting for the left?
I have economically left views. But it’s I don’t think the left are planning to do enough.
There is nothing wrong with anything I said. Just you can’t accept people have different opinions to you so all you think is that I must be lying.
To normalise the idea that people who once voted "for the left ^^^tm " now voting for a hard right reform party. Because you’re bored. Because it seemed funny. Who knows, why does anyone lie?
So, as “the left” aren’t meeting your left wing economic planning expectations, you decided to go with a party who have NO left leaning economic plans. Well, id love to hear how you plan to square that circle.
Of course I can accept that people have different opinions to me. What a silly thing to say. No, sadly, its that it sounds like bollocks and it doesn’t hold up to any scrutiny, is all.
Of course it holds up to scrutiny. You are just close minded.
I, and probably most left wing people throughout history, have had economically left views and want low immigration. I don’t know why you can’t accept that.
The left aren’t doing enough, or talking about doing enough, about immigration. So as such I have to make a decision. What’s more important, kinda crappy left views that in my opinion don’t go far enough. Or deal with immigration.
Immigration is such a big issue that the left are losing voters like me to parties that will do something about immigration.
If there was a left party talking about immigration as much as reform and was polling the same I’d vote for them. But right now the big issue is immigration and I want that solved. I’m willing to take a economic hit achieve that. But I also think lowering immigration is good for the economy and the workers in it. So I get to vote for 2/3 things I want rather than 1/3. There does that basic maths help you understand now? It’s really not hard.
My mind is open. Its just youre taking a load of bollocks, is all. Its really not my fault you’re trying to sell these whoppers.
I’ll show you how it doesn’t hold up:
Exaclty who are “the left” here and what isn’t going far enough, that reform has gone far enough on? Don’t be light on the detail or just declare wide sweeping BS and you should find the root of the problem.
Assuming you’re not trolling. Can you please expand on what good points do you think they offer?
Getting rid of FPTP and doing absolutely anything about immigration rather than just acting like it isn’t an issue.
Everything else is secondary.
If those are your main issues, how are they any different from greens or libdems?
I have voted green before but I don’t think they care enough about immigration. I think the economic boom in green energy means that the landslide to green power is already underway and effort should be spent in other areas. No one is really going to slow or speed up the green revolution from a global point of view, which is frankly all that matters?
Why would I vote for libdem?
Why would I vote for libdem?
Because they want to get rid of FPTP and fix immigration, your main two important issues. But it seems like you’re adding extra steps now…
Anyways, reading your other comments here, you’ve confirmed what others already suspected - you don’t really want to fix the root issues of immigration, you’re just a xenophob.
I’m not adding extra steps at all. I want a party that will do something about immigration and voting. Reform seem the loudest in that space so they are likely to get my vote.
You are the one trying to convince me to vote libdem and I don’t see what they offer. The party has never interested me and I don’t see why I would vote for them. So if you can’t give me a reason to choose then over reform I don’t see why you would bring it up.
I don’t know if it’s your reading comprehension or you’re just confused, but I urge you to re-read my comments - I’m not trying to convince you of anything, you clearly made your decision and it doesn’t seem to be based on any empirical evidence.
You made some bold claims though and I’m here to challenge you on those.
- You claim to be a “leftie”.
- You voted remain.
- You want to reform FPTP and immigration.
- Apparently reform are the only ones to hit all the boxes.
So my answer is this… If you vote Reform, you’re not a leftie. If you vote Farage, you’re not a Remainer either. There are other parties who want to reform voting and immigration with better track record, actual councillors and more humane policies.
Its not surprising, considering the disproportional amount of airtime news stations like sky and the BBC keep giving them.
I mean, they have 1 councilor and so much coverage. The green party have over 300 and you’ll never hear a peep out of them from the right wing client media or the compromised BBC.
The green party have over 300
True, but the green party also have over 800 councillors
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68956733
I loved his work on Brexit, I wonder what he’ll do next to improve the life of the common folk?
He will personally come round and shit on your living room carpet.
Impressive, I would have thought he’d have sent a guy for that.
Only if you are an immigrate. British born citizens he will shit on personally.
Tories becoming a third party will be hilarious
Nice thought. But that will never happen with our rotten FPTP system
It’s unlikely but it actually could happen if tactical voting is used. Remember tactical voting is the Achilles tendon of the first pass the post system. It assumes that people won’t figure it out and won’t vote accordingly and historically that was true but now that’s changing. Mostly because the conservatives have become utterly reprehensible.
Previously they were at least moderately acceptable and so people put up with them
I predict they will formally merge with Reform UK during the next election cycle. Too much money behind them for them to just disappear into the political wilderness.
Yeah, if there’s one thing you can count on it’s the left fracturing and conservatives having class solidarity.
We can gloat now, but I fear that the Tories will veer further right to get back into power.
Every dimension of the world is heating up and everyone is getting desperate.
The common folk are clawing for change and will grasp anything to take back some power. The elites are feeling the walls close in around them and will lash out at any perceived threat to their position.
Once Labour win, we’ll have 5 years to prepare for worse times to come, 10 maximum. It’s not going to be pretty after that.
I want off this fucking sinking island, before it pulls me under with it. But I fear there’s nowhere else to run to, no shelter to ride out the storm. Humanity has never faced the collapse of a global civilization before, and I feel a lot of us will see it happen before we depart this world.
We can gloat now, but I fear that the Tories will veer further right to get back into power.
They can go as far to the right as they want while being in opposition, but if they want any gleam of power they will have to come back to the centre. Look at Labour with Corbyn and Labour today, it will be the same but on the opposite side. They’ll have a year or 2 with some hard right policies, realise it’s not working, then get a more sane leader in when the election window gets closer.
Once Labour win, we’ll have 5 years to prepare for worse times to come, 10 maximum. It’s not going to be pretty after that.
I think you’re being generous with your time there, people have short memories, let’s not forget Labour aren’t exactly winning on merit here but more “the least worst option”, they’ll have a honeymoon period of about 2 years before people ask “why are things still bad??”
I don’t know, I think the Tories veering further and further right is partially what led them to the mess they’re in now. I’m hoping that 5 years in opposition, we’ll see more moderate Tories come back to the forefront, or, even better, Lib Dems take the mantle as the main opposition party.
But who knows, you may be right. I dread to think we’re about to jump off the deep end and end up like US politics.
I think the UK has a lot more swing voters than the US. In the US way too many people are Republican or Democrat people. They will vote for ‘their’ party or not at all. In the UK it’s more fluid and not part of people’s identity. Even a raging gammon changes who they vote for, as the Conservatives are finding out. Chasing that vote is losing them moderate votes.
way too many people are Republican or Democrat people
We don’t have the same kind of proportional representation, are nearly 100% first-past-the-post, and there are in-built advantages to the two major parties. Because of the shitty system, presidential elections generally necessitate voting for one or the other or the vote is split enough that one of those two that didn’t have votes siphoned off wins.
At more local/regional levels, there are other parties out there that can be viable. We have primary elections (I’m not sure what the UK equivalent would be) and I know that some people are voting outside of the two main parties there. However, when the actual election comes, it’s almost always two candidates and almost always from those two parties so it’s voting for the least-worst. It sucks.
I think two party systems and FPTP need to go. In both UK and the US.
What I favour is Mixed Member Proportional Representation. Like NewZealand and Germany. But I want it PR mixed with Score/Range voting rather than FPTP.
The UK also needs decentralizing and federating. Maybe break up England into units similar to Scotland, Wales and NI.
