Well, how about we just try it first instead of resorting to instant armed combat against our own government or a civil war?
how many decades have you been trying for and failing?
We’ve been trying for a long time? How long should we wait? Do they need to officially declare fascism?
thank you for your brainless comment, it really brought this comment section to life.
sorry.
Is Lemmy just full of hateful ass people or something? In what world does saying we shouldn’t start an armed rebellion worthy of all the downvotes? Y’all are fucking wild.
your commitment to the bit is truly laudable 🤣
how about we just try it first
😭
Lemmy is full of leftists, the vast majority of which understand that electoralism and reformism are losing strategies and that revolution is generally necessary.
Liberals have tried and failed to meaningfully improve their situations via voting for centuries. Without analyzing which class is in control of the state, voting will always be extremely weak.
Well, how about we just try it first
Nobody in the United States has ever tried to vote against a fascist dictator?
instant armed combat
Who do you think is actually organized an armed uprising against Trump? How do you think they’re doing it “instantly”?
Untrue I tried three times to vote against a fascist dictator but over half of my fellow Americans are morons who overrode my vote two out of the three times. But the key here is that voting worked one of those times and no matter how much kicking and screaming and bitching and moaning may have happened his butt was kicked off the WH lawn on Inauguration Day so clearly it does work.
Dont forget the rigged machines in swing states thanks to Elon.
You mean Biden who believes we would have to create Israel if it didn’t exist, who continued the war drive, who delivered weapons and training to genocidaires, who put infants in solitary confinement at the border, who was instrumental in ensuring that the prisons were full of black people who could be used as slave labor, who pardoned the judge who took bribes in exchange for sentencing 8 year old to juvenile detention for jaywalking, who failed to do anything meaningful to stop Trump, who failed to do anything meaningful to limit the power of the executive so it couldn’t be abused, who failed to do anything to stop fascism at all?
Those 4 years where voting a different guy in didn’t do literally anything to stop fascism in the least?
Sure. Do it again. I am sure continuing to not stop fascism is exactly how we stop fascism
I think the leftist point being made isn’t that any particular election has no effect. Of course elections have effects. At the very least they provide legitimacy. I think the point is that even though it worked to unseat Trump in 2020, the election did not halt the long term processes leading us towards fascism. It slowed them down a bit but didn’t reverse trend. Reason being that the owner class kept expanding their wealth and therefore control over the entire system. I think leftist memes about elections are often poorly communicated or understood, which isn’t ideal, but then it’s …memes.
I take this meme to also point out that a fascist could just not follow elections, or call them off entirely. Adolf Hitler, the man in the image, called of elections under guise of security. Yeah, you vote against 'em, but then they refuse to leave.
“BannedVoice” pointed out that this didn’t happen in 2020, but I’d point out that then Speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy, as well as a fair number of Republican politicians, were what you’d call “Tea Party” or neoconservative. Kevin McCarthy, as well as just about every one of these “moderate” Republicans, have been chased out of the party, largely because of their refusal to bow to MAGA orders. The Republican Party of 2020 is not the Republican Party we have now. It’s loyalists all the way through. Remember what happened with the Epstein files?
That’s important context for what happened in 2020.
Broadly, if one believes that elections are a tool that should be leveraged, it’s crucial to understand that elections are not enough, Never have been. Elections are but a small part of the democratic system. All the other cogs - campaigns, fundraising, at all levels of government, for this or that office, within parties, all of that matters immensely. The people you mention who acted as a bulwark against the fascists were a product of that system. Who the choices are come election time is the product of that. Whether it’s a Turd Sandwich v. Giant Douche. Or whether it’s Mamdani v. Cuomo.
And then we got another genocidal imperialist, worker protections continued to erode, and imperialism persisted.
over half of my fellow Americans are morons who overrode my vote
“How about we try voting”
“This doesn’t count, I voted but then other people voted the opposite way”
Maybe the problem is that people on Lemmy don’t understand what an election is.
But the key here is that voting worked one of those times
Oh yeah. Famously, all the fascism in America stopped existing on January 6th, 2021.
That’s why everyone was at the US Capital celebrating.
Not sure if you have noticed, but your government has already started the armed combat against the people
Yes but my 12 gauge shotgun and my .22 riffle and my .45 handgun seem to be a tad lopsided against their tanks and drones and guided missiles so sorry if I’m not ready to pounce just yet.
riffle
Totally valid. You’re right. Under those conditions, voting will definitely work. But only if you shame people on the Internet to vote the correct way.
Poe’s law has got me good this time. Not sure if youre sarcastic or not lol.
Full on sarcastic
You can’t complain about the quality of your guns in the US. If I pissed in a circle I’d hit six gun stores. $300 and an hour later, I’d have a better weapon than any of the insurgent groups that beat the US military.
Gotta be a bit…
The .45 has me
. That’s specifically the cartridge that people buy when they want to say a 9mm is too weak for whatever combat scenario they have in mind. Some guy near me has a bumper sticker that says “.45 ACP: it’s like 9mm for men”. You can’t be both a .45 ACP chud and a smol bean.I’m a .45 ACP chud but I also recognize that it’s not gonna do much against any kind of armored target. There are dozens of us
The whole comment reads like someone whose Facebook picture is them in the driver seat of their truck wearing Oakley sunglasses and a baseball hat with an eagle on it.
Read up on the Viet Cong and stop making excuses
Because they’re already drawing weapons and we’ve been “trying” so hard we elected him twice. You think this will change? You think the Dems will wave a wand and institute voting reform and healthcare or increase wages or improve the living conditions?
Actually my hope is that when this is over people in the MAGA movement will finally wake up and see how much of their own lives have been destroyed by what this ass clown did to them and we as a country can agree to NEVER allow it to happen again and that we can finally go back to letting the adults govern the country instead of a man who would have been a used car salesman had his daddy not given him everything he has.
(also the ‘clean energy’ he’s talking about is fracking 🥰 )
If we just keep changing the bandages and apply no antibiotics, surely the infection will just give up
Trump isn’t the problem, he’s a symptom of the problem. The US Empire has never served the working classes, no president has.
when this is over […] we can finally go back
after germany lost in ww2 only 300 people stood in front of nuremberg.
every fascist that survived just used their position of power and recognition and continued staying in politics. they didn’t change their minds, only the approach.
fascism wasn’t suddenly eradicated. the generations they put into this world were taught and raised by these fascists in hiding.
MAGA fucks won’t change their minds. They’ll just change the approach.
As an American who’s lived in various countries and can’t stand his home country, I agree with you 100%.
Sure thing, would another hundred years suffice or would that still be too early to tell?
woah only a century? cool your jets extremist
lol, is this bait?
you’re right. one more election and we fix climate change, ranpant exploitation and discrimination! We just have to vote properly.
Instant? My guy where do you draw the line?
instant
Martin Luther King, Jr. 1963: https://letterfromjail.com/
how white liberals think fascism works
Chad voting in a UN resolution condemning Israel’s treatment of Palestinians in Gaza
you’re finished
Official portrait of Benjamin Netanyahu
no, pls
Yall know the reps and dems just place bids to decide who will run the country. Kind of like deciding who will host the Olympics or Super Bowl.
Just you wait another few more years and I’m gonna vote so hard it’ll make your head spin
Is this not also true for liberals who aren’t white?
yes. i did not create this image
I think the point of the words inclusion is that you might have a very different perspective of the implications and effectiveness of voting when the state doesn’t explicitly cater to your identity as the default.
Or bearded. You can be a clean shaven, tan, even a woman and the meme still works.
Thanks for sharing. It’s not bad, except for the lack of class analysis. Assuming the Democrats are principled and will always be opposed to fascism, is sadly wrong. They are exactly like those conservatives who always prefer fascism to socialism.
Yeah, a lot of the historical references and descriptions were good, but then when it got to the present day, essentially the “what is to be done” section, it just flopped hard. Paraphrasing: “a coalition of blue states can just ignore the federal government and do their own thing, boom, fascism defeated.” It’s not actually discussing anything about how fascism can actually be defeated even though the whole first half of it sounds like it’s supposed to be a set up to do just that.
Instead it descends into ridiculous cringe:
California could request Canadian peacekeepers for “election security.” New York could invite European observers for “financial transparency.” Make it embarrassing. Make America’s collapse visible to the world. Force the international community to pick sides.
This is your solution? That’s how fascism is defeated? Any respect I may have built up for the author when they were accurately talking about how fascists slither their way into power using the liberal* political apparatus was nullified by this point.
*(even though the author always insisted on calling the fascist appeasers “conservative” at every turn rather than using the more appropriate word “liberal”)Every solution is just another form of “blue states should just pretend there is no federal government,” even the last one which is titled “International Intervention” but that just means making all the other totally-not-fascist liberal “democracies” play ball with the new blue coalition instead of the liberal democracy that elected Trump.
No, the UN can’t invade America. But they can isolate it. Sanctions work. Ask Russia.
Ask Russia? The country whose economy improved after “the mother of all sanctions” were imposed on it? Russia, who is indisputably winning the conflict that those sanctions were supposed to stop, all while Russia’s economic ties with other enemies of the US have grown and blossomed? How about asking Cuba if sanctions work. Yeah, they work to starve the population and cause civilian immiseration and death, they don’t and never have worked to depose rulers. This doofus has no fucking clue what they’re talking about.
And even with the historical stuff, it left a big fucking gaping hole where the people and organizations that DID successfully fight fascism should have been. But nope, not even a mention. Clearly Christopher didn’t want to admit that communism IS the cure to fascism, theoretically and in practice, historically and right now. This essay is just more cringe liberal drivel.
The upside-down corpse of Mussolini might disagree with that
Okay analysis. Awful solutions. All that just to say what someone far smarter than him had already said: political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Fascists seize state power once they believe they have enough political power (ie the means of dispensing organized violence through a military or paramilitary formation). They are only stopped at the local level by antifascists willing to get their hands dirty, on the national level by the state military that refuses to go along, and on the global level by state actors.
Once they win elections, it’s already too late.
Hey what do you think stops them from winning that first election?
🤫
Funny, posting said article on a nazi platform.
Write more non-Nazi stuff and it will stop being a Nazi platform.
The owner of the site is a fucking nazi so there no making it un nazi. Like keeping X cause you think you can change it from a white supremacist site.
Like keeping X cause you think you can change it from a white supremacist site.
I still lurk on Twitter. Calling it a “white supremacist site” is just… Silly. The whole point of social media is that it’s the users who create content.
I’m seeing a lot of right-wing fundamentalists being clapped by sane people. The only time I see any nazi/fascist/supremacist content is when it’s getting ratio’d or just ridiculed.
I’m not saying this content isn’t there, but I’m saying there’s still a lot of people fighting the good fight. Packing up your toys and going home is not really a method for anything other than getting completely marginalised, IMO.
Lemmy libs next year: “VOTE FOR BLUEMAGA EVERYONE”
Some of the dumber white libs I’ve talked to honestly believe 51% of American voters voted for Trump 🤣
They don’t know what voting does or how it works but they’re sure it’s the only reasonable solution!
It’s funny how almost 20 million people less than in 2020 voted this time around (most of the missing voters being on the dem side too); people are beginning to realize we don’t really have a say
And it seems like a lot of Americans don’t understand FPTP or the Electoral College, or even the amount of voter suppression there is. Your vote only counts (and only maybe) if you live in a swing state. The votes in rural areas count for way more than in urban ones but those are already captured by R. Let’s not even get into the other branches of government:
Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability.
- James Madison
voting is actually the way to go, and would probably help get fascism out of the government. vote or don’t.
Fascism litteraly wins through democracy so…well we can stop it prematurely, but once it’s In power it won’t let itself to be voted out
maybe a revolution can work if NOT voting
Cool song you linked to, but if you think its message is pro-voting, and if you actually think doing so “would probably help get fascism out of the government” then you are painfully naive. It won’t do that. It has never worked and it never will, not under capitalism (“liberal democracy”) and this fact is baked into it. At best, it’s a harmless waste of time. But there is valid argument to be made that the act of voting, useless as it may be to affect positive change let alone oust fascism, is still endorsing the bourgeois dictatorship, still a kind of tacit approval validating the very system that has allowed fascism to slide easily into power.
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the lyrics said “you might vote for someone else, and i might wanna change your mind, so vote and don’t today” and “vote and know it might NOT make a difference; you might see the contradiction, but they’re NOT talking to you”. thank frick for making linking stuff easier here.
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if voting CAN’T help, then a revolution would be the next method. oh and do you think indirect voting, and a one-party system (or multiple like-minded parties under a coalition like china or the dprk) is better?
- And… you think that is espousing a pro-voting message? k.
- Yes, revolution is necessary to defeat fascism.
and 3. (since your 2 contained multiple points) oh, and do you think what we have in the US (and other bourgeois dictatorships) isn’t a one-party system?
Yes, in genuine democracy where the means of production are not wholly owned by capitalists. You really need to learn what the difference between a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie and a dictatorship of the proletariat is. China is far from perfect but the voice of the populace is vastly more powerful there and actually does steer the state. Considering the topic here was “voting out fascism” one obvious thing to note is that you won’t find China or the DPRK ever led by actual straight up fascists as is the case openly right now in the US.
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i think the message for that song is “you can vote, but you may NOT be sure about who you voted”
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i assume by “genuine democracy”, you mean like-minded political parties in a coalition (or lack thereof). oh and the us is a two-party system that silences most third parties
- The message of the song, confirmed by the lyrics you pasted, is the title itself. Vote… or don’t (because it doesn’t matter).
- It has nothing to do with “like-mindedness” it has everything to do with class interest. I thought you said you were a socialist. Do you know literally anything about Marxism? oh and no, the supposed “two” parties in the US both represent the same ruling class, you know, the fuckers that own the means of production under capitalism. You can call it “two” if you want, but you’re only displaying your ignorance to the fact that it’s just theater and both are two cogs in the same machine working in tandem to further the interests of the same class. Ever hear of the ratchet effect? Good cop/bad cop routine? Insert famous quote here:
“The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.”
- Julius Nyerere
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- And… you think that is espousing a pro-voting message? k.
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Race baiting to distract from the class war?
what about classbaiting?
Why is this type of privileged exclusionary 1 dimension opinion even upvoted?
There are multiple problems that matter at any given time.
Saying that racism is a distraction ignores the very real people who are being harmed right now because they aren’t you, and thus you don’t care about them. “I got mine” but about other issues.
Some take for a socialist to have really…
Some take for a socialist to have really…
I wouldn’t assume they are one.
Moron
Oh look, another .ml idiot.
Hi again, what did they say? Some lib bs?
as always :3
:3
Classic
You’re on .ml, dipshit
You actually said this comment to a mirror
Therefore, you’re the idiot
What’s idiotic about Marxism?
The implementation
What fools
Correlation isn’t causation
But when people die under communism beaucouse there was a world war and the land was totally destroyed, it’s certainly that ugly communism in it?
Yeah man i guess they just suddenly found the fountain of youth. Nothing is causation actually, cause and effect is a myth sold to us by Big Causality so we buy more notebooks
Did you make it beyond high school?
Snide vagueposting to cover for having been schooled with data. Sad!
Yes, the causation was the dramatic expansion of safety nets, improved agriculture, land reform, poverty reduction, and more. The proof of effectiveness is in the graph.
It has to be when it’s supporting my argument! Let’s disregard all the years of war, it must be the Marxism!
?
Tfw when you vote for the lesser evil and they proceed to appoint Hitler as cancellor.
Revolutions stand or fall with public support. Voting is the most visible way to establish public sentiment. People like to quote that only a third of the US actually elected Trump, but do we have a clear idea of just how many oppose him, if so many voters apparently never expressed their opinion in any measurable way?
Doing nothing and complaining on the internet is useless. Doing something is scary. If you knew you had your community at your back, wouldn’t you feel more confident to step up?
You’re right that people need to know that voting won’t be enough, but it’s still important in order to communicate the public opinion that separates a revolution from a coup.
That is indeed a good argument for voting, but voting third party
Depending on the stakes, yes. It is categorically better than not voting at all.
There is still the spoiler effect to consider, which may make voting third party a worse strategy in the complex, blind game that elections are. In elections where that isn’t as big of a risk, it’s a good way to indicate dissatisfaction with the status quo and the parties on offer. If there is a particularly convincing third party that many agree on, it also communicates what people do want.
In presidential elections, in a country where the president already had so much power even before this whole shitshow, when one candidate is a much greater threat to the basic feasability of resistance, it’s a dangerous gamble, risking much for a fairly slim chance at an all-or-nothing victory.
FPTP is one of the many things that are fucked up, but not every election has that kind of impact, and particularly if you’re in states where one party is so dominant that the spoiler effect is negligible anyways, it may be the more valuable choice.
Even along with public support, revolutions need their violent wing. MLK wouldn’t have been as nearly successful without the Black Panthers visibly totin’ guns on the 5 O’Clock news. It made MLK look very reasonable to deal with.
Gandhi, the modern Icon of peaceful protest winning the day, had armed rebellions popping up behind him. The Indian’s had nearly a 100 year history of violence against the British. And an exhausted Great Britain just wanting to get out of the colonial business didn’t hurt either.
When facing despots and fascists, there needs to be people willing to kill and die for the cause of freedom. We have not reached that point yet.
Agreed on all points. It’s kinda like a robbery – you probably won’t arbitrarily hand a random stranger your wallet, but if they point a knife, things look different.
Though in this case, it’s the robber barons getting mugged by their victims.
This is absolutely the correct answer. Successful revolutions are always multilateral in their approach.
so voting AND revolution are both good
The success of diplomacy and peaceful protest hinges on the existence of a credible threat that the alternative (war and riots, respectively) will be worse. Even if a (mostly) peaceful solution should be found, I suspect there will have to be some measure of violence to get that point across.
As others point out, the elites won’t go down quietly, and as long as there are bootlicks willing to fight on their behalf, they’ll rather let their bootlicks die than make concessions.
So while I don’t think violent revolutions are good for their own sake, they may be a necessary evil for good ends.
what about peaceful revolutions (as long as they DON’T even escalate)?
I know of no revolutions that didnt use force or the credible threat of force, because the ruling class would always rather escalate than voluntarily give up their power.
If, for whatever reason, the police collectively decides to no longer enforce the commands of those in power and no other group steps up to violently defend the status quo, a peaceful revolution in the form of civil disobedience would be conceivable.
Getting to that point without some measure of violence is what I believe to be unlikely – not impossible, mind you, and I very much hope for it, but it’s quite likely that an attempt to create such a consensus would (at least initially) be violently suppressed just as violent resistance would.
Even if it is achieved, the new society will need to guard itself against opportunistic egoists seeking to exploit the new power vacuum. Here too there may be at least an initial period of violence until that new dynamic is clear.
As long as there are people willing to hurt others for their own benefit, they will have to be fought.
But we should try to fight as little as possible.
The problem in democracy is, that instead of a minimum IQ, there is a minimum age for voting rights.
Hmmm yes let’s give the bourgeois state further incentive to deprive the people it doesn’t like of education
That’s the least of bourgeois democracy’s problems, and such suffrage gatekeeping was banned for very good reasons.
Previously.IQ is pretty much a bullshit statistic that largely correllates to education and economic standing than anything else. There isn’t some grand variance in intelligence, actually, what’s at play is competing class interests and socioeconomic factors determining diet and access to education.
IQ is not a statistic.
IQ is generally bullshit. It tests how well people can take specific tests, it doesn’t correspond to actual intelligence, and people are far closer in that regard than they like to imagine.
the iq test is indeed BS, and was built on hatefulness and eugenics - is there an alternative to the iq test? i was thinking of the sat.
IQ isn’t a statistic.
Sure, it’s a tested metric, I misspoke. That doesn’t change that IQ is bullshit.
Never argued it isn’t bullshit…
Don’t see what the problem is, then.
So if everybody is well-fed and educated, we could use it to let only the most intelligent people vote?
“Most intelligent” is a moving target, but by feeding and educating everyone people will in general have better skills for making good decisions, yes.
In the current style of democracy elections can be bought by playing ads to people and by making empty promises until there is a majority.
If we need intelligence to make good decisions, but the majority is neither fed well nor educated well, people are trapped.
Do you have an idea how things can be changed?
Organizing in working class parties directly, filling in the gaps in food and education, and directly opposing the system. Marxism-Leninism.
No, the problem is that every idiot and insane can vote and even become a president, as seen.
Here’s the thing:
I didn’t believe for a second that a Kamala victory would have crushed fascism forever.
In fact, I’m positive the GOP would place Trump’s cold corpse as their nominee in all future elections if they had to.
The problem is simple:
Fascists are in power right now.
They wouldn’t be in nearly as much power if Kamala had won
Because the fascists are in power, its exceedingly unlikely we’ll ever have a fair election again with this government
That wouldn’t be nearly as likely to be the case if Kamala had won.
Furthermore, I’m tired of white leftists screaming for revolution while they themselves know damn good and well they’d never fight in one themselves, and they wouldn’t suffer even close to as much as racial, sexual and gender minorities will in resisting fascism.
The white leftists who refused to vote for Kamala suffer nowhere near as much as any minority loving under Trump, and they knew that and still relax with their arms behind their heads today.
The white leftists who refused to vote for Kamala suffer nowhere near as much as any minority loving under Trump, and they knew that and still relax with their arms behind their heads today
The smug liberals who refused to have a backbone or humanity in the face of their party’s genocide suffer nowhere near as much as Palestinans suffered under Biden and Harris, and they knew that and still relax with their fingers in their ears today
So you’re not at all refuting that minorities are suffering g far more than white people under Trump?
And here’s the issue with using the genocide of the Palestinians as an excuse to abandon all other minorities:
Resistance against the genocide in Palestine exists almost entirely within the progressive wing of the Democratic party.
Democracy would still almost certainly continue to exist in some capacity if Kamala had won.
But now that Trump won, Israel is not only entirely free, with zero guard rails whatsoever, to complete their genocide and attack all of their neighbors, but now the US is further involved than ever, outright bombing Iran in the process.
And genocide is your concern, huh?
What about the 4k (minimum) missing minorities that were kidnapped by ICE?
The mass building of concentration camps on US soil?
The massacre of Venezuelan civilians as prelude to an outright war and enslavement of Venezuela?
The campaign of the GOP’s to destroy the 14th amendment and Voting Rights Act? You know, eliminating birthright citizenship and voter rights, the same shit the Nazis did to Jews leading to the start of the Holocaust.
Oh, and the total betrayal of Ukraine in Russia’s genocidal war on them?
Refusal to vote for Kamala produced more genocide. Kamala was objectively the less genocidal option than Trump.
Kamala was objectively the less genocidal option than Trump.
In my mind palace.
y’all go to a ballot box and think “i’m gonna vote less genocide today” ???
As opposed to…?
You understand the US has a binary party system, right? You have 2 choices.
Since the GOP primaries for Trump, and Biden totally fucked over the Dem party by dropping too late for anyone other than Kamala to take the ticket, that was the choice.
This is not an argument for cowardice and “lesser evil” fascism, this is an argument for revolution.
A revolution that you mfers will never fight in.
Time and time again we see terminally online leftists scream for revolution, and absolutely no indication one will ever happen, let alone that they’ll participate.
This is you coping by reflexively projecting your cowardice and complacency onto others to justify your uselessness, with an (un)healthy dose of “it can’t happen here” american exceptionalism. Keep wallowing, your overlords love it.
Not a rebuttle to my point at all.
I’ll take it that you have absolutely no reasonable counter argument and are just shitposting images of minorities being attacked with no real goal in mind.
How typical
Do tell me what the roadmap for establishing progressive policies is like under Trump vs Kamala
Seems we’re objectively further away from a progressive government than ever. Am I wrong?
Damn thats true, seems like all your voting shit doesn’t fuckin work at all🤷♂️
Russia’s genocidal war
Words have meaning, and war is not genocide. You people support the Ukrainian coup government, who were doing actual ethnic cleansing before the Russian Federation finally stopped them. Anyone in the Donbas region would throw you in a hole for this equivocation, and you would deserve it. It makes me sick when liberals just mindlessly project the crimes of America’s vassals and allies on America’s enemies. Israel and Ukraine are allies. Israel trains both the Ukranian military and ICE. You are supporting, either tacitly or overtly, two different sets of nazis. You are a nazi supporter.
Refusal to vote for Kamala produced more genocide. Kamala was objectively the less genocidal option than Trump.
This is genocide-justifying horseshit to soothe your guilty conscience. Gaza was levelled under the Democrats. I’m not reading the rest of your fascist apologia because frankly, you people all spew the same delusional arguments. Anyone in Palestine would throw you into the sea for this inhumanity, and you would deserve it. Your cowardice and servility in the face of unimaginable cruelty has doomed you to live the rest of your life as a Good German. I would say good luck, but I don’t wish good luck for you. I wish you a sudden moment of terrible clarity.
Words have meaning, and war is not genocide.
Yes, war isn’t genocide.
You know what is genocide?
Mass intentional killings of Ukrainian civilians, rape of Ukrainian women, kidnappings of Ukrainian children, and destruction of Ukrainian infrastructure vital for life.
All things Russia is guilty of, and all things that adequately describe Russia’s actions as genocide.
You people support the Ukrainian coup government,
Ukrainians chose that government in the Orange revolution, of which evidence that it was a West orchestrated coup is shady at best.
Not that such an act justified Russia’s immediate response of invading and illegally annexing Crimea, and upstarting and sponsoring two major rebellions in Ukraine.
who were doing actual ethnic cleansing before the Russian Federation finally stopped them.
There is no adequate evidence whatsoever that any ethnic cleansing was taking place in Ukraine before Russia’s invasion, let alone one carried out by the Ukrainian government.
That’s some lams ass Kremlin propaganda you’re vomiting here. Long tried, long debunked, always pathetic.
Anyone in the Donbas region would throw you in a hole for this equivocation,
You sound like a fucking child.
Donbas is an authoritarian shithole experiencing a Russian sponsored rebellion entirely in the name of Russia’s desire to annex the region.
I don’t think you’re gonna be able to get a well trusted perception of events from most people in the area.
and you would deserve it.
Spoken like a real keyboard warrior.
It makes me sick when liberals just mindlessly project the crimes of America’s vassals and allies on America’s enemies.
Good thing that isn’t what’s happening here.
You’re just sperging and regurgitating Kremlin propaganda.
Israel and Ukraine are allies.
Literally meaningless to the argument.
Facts remain:
Russia is committing genocide in its war against Ukraine
Russia is the aggressor in the war against Ukraine
Kamala didn’t support giving up Ukraine to Russia. Trump does.
Therefore Trump is supporting yet another genocide that Kamala didn’t.
Basic math.
Israel trains both the Ukranian military and ICE.
Again, entirely irrelevant for the reasons listed above.
You do understand Ukraine has been in a perpetual state of desperation this entire conflict, right? They aren’t just sending their troops to Israel for training, they’re sending them to many countries, mostly in NATO.
Again though, this is irrelevant to the facts:
Russia is committing genocide in its war against Ukraine
Russia is the aggressor in the war against Ukraine
Kamala didn’t support giving up Ukraine to Russia. Trump does.
Therefore Trump is supporting yet another genocide that Kamala didn’t.
Basic math.
You are supporting, either tacitly or overtly, two different sets of nazis. You are a nazi supporter.
The modern state of Ukraine has never been demonstrated to support Nazism as a matter of policy.
They have an awkward situation where some of their historical figures collaborated with the Nazis, at least at one point or another, but they’re generally only celebrated for resistance against the Soviet Union, who like modern Russia comitted genocide against Ukraine.
If you bother to do any research on history, you might note that Ukrainians also widely resisted the Nazis too. Turns out their history is complex, not simple like the Kremlin propaganda you’ve been embarrassing yourself by spreading.
Facts remain:
Russia is committing genocide in its war against Ukraine
Russia is the aggressor in the war against Ukraine
Kamala didn’t support giving up Ukraine to Russia. Trump does.
Therefore Trump is supporting yet another genocide that Kamala didn’t.
Basic math.
And you wanna talk about Nazi supporting?
RUSSIA SUPPORTS NAZISM Some examples:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/vladimir-putin-russia-far-right/
https://icct.nl/publication/russia-and-far-right-insights-ten-european-countries
This is genocide-justifying horseshit to soothe your guilty conscience.
Who here is trying to justify genocide?
I’m stating facts:
Kamala was the less genocidal candidate.
There’s more genocide/support for genocide under Trump than there was under Biden and would have been under Kamala.
Therefore, refusal to vote for Kamala, when Trump was the only other outcome, was the pro-genodice move.
Gaza was levelled under the Democrats.
You’re fighting with ghosts.
My position was never to dispute the genocide in Gaza being enabled by the Dems.
My point is there is more genocide being supported and/or carried out under Trump that would have been under Kamala. That’s a fact.
I’m not reading the rest of your fascist apologia because
frankly, you people all spew the same delusional argumentsBecause everything I said here is not only not fascist apologia, but actual fact.
Meanwhile you’ve wasted so much time regurgitating the propaganda from an actually fascist state, Russia.
We never even got into how Russia and Israel alike both heavily supported Trump’s campaign, thus reaffirming that going against Kamala was the pro-genocide move
.Anyone in Palestine would throw you into the sea for this inhumanity,I’m seeing a lot of lame as keyboard warrior shit from you and its kinda embarrassing ngl
and you would deserve it. Your cowardice and servility in the face of unimaginable cruelty
You lost the right to that moral high ground and instead embrass that very sin with your
- Pro-genocide decision to oppose Kamala over Trump
- Your fascist apologia for Russia
has doomed you to live the rest of your life as a Good German.
Germans are generally progressive people who are also currently facing down the barrel to fascism again due to the AFD, which, by the way…
https://www.dw.com/en/the-afd-is-drawing-support-from-russia-germans/a-74223088
I would say good luck, but I don’t wish good luck for you. I wish you a sudden moment of terrible clarity.
Good god go back to Reddit with that cringe holy shit
I ain’t reading all that nazi shit, free Palestine
No its ok.
Prove to everyone you’re a moron incapable of reading more than a few lines.
Continue with your grift of pretending to care about Palestine.
There is no adequate evidence whatsoever that any ethnic cleansing was taking place in Ukraine before Russia’s invasion, let alone one carried out by the Ukrainian government.
The genocide denier
Kamala was the less genocidal candidate.
The genocide denier
I don’t think you’re gonna be able to get a well trusted perception of events from most people in the area.
The colonialist dehumanizer
Germans are generally progressive people
The hitlerite imperialist
That’s a fact.
Source: I made it up
Russia is committing genocide in its war against Ukraine
Usa projection
Russia is the aggressor in the war against Ukraine
Usa projection
You’re just **** and regurgitating Kremlin propaganda.
This will get you banned, ableist nazi scum
Were the “Uncommitted” Palestinians also white leftists?
