Does method of execution, crime committed or overall cost matter to you?
I think it’s appropriate in some cases, when a crime is disgusting and extremely selfish.
These are what I would approve it for.
-Murder for non idealogical reasons, or not for revenge, or also if the murder is cruel.
-Volent pedophilia, including kidnapping and rape or coercion.
-Political corruption or grand scams that hurt many people.
-Propaganda or profiting off destroying democratic institutions. Conspiracy against the public like fiat currencies.
-Sensless animal cruelty.
-promoting religion for power reasons while being a hypocrite.
-Extreme child neglect, like doing drugs while pregnant.
-Dissolving as a politician or advocating for the dissolution of basic human rights like privacy.
-High treason, as is a head of state or a chair of the house working with foreigners to subvert your political autonomy.
-Putting people in prison who are known to be innocent.
These are what I consider to be extremely serious crimes. Probably a few more I can add on there. Most of these as you can see mostly target people with power, the rest are just for cruelty and extreme selfishness at the expense of others which causes mass corruption.
The death penalty should ALMOST never be used. The only use for the death penalty is for world leaders that direct their subordinates to commit atrocious acts.
Normal civilians, no matter how dangerous, should only ever be treated with dignity. There is no place for state sanctioned murder.
A) It is immoral.
B) The justice system isn’t perfect, and death is final.
C) The actual cost of going through all the trials and effort to put someone to death is typically higher than just keeping them locked up.
D) There is no humane way to put someone to death.
E) It is not effective at preventing crime. It only makes it so people have nothing to lose by being caught.
B and E are the strongest cases against it in my opinion. I think C could be mitigated with new practices. A is arguable dependent on the individuals morals, ethically, youd have a better argument. D feels like we just haven’t tried, what about a FAT dose of fent or a gunshot to the head. I’d be fine with killing convicted serial rapists, serial murderers and serial pedophiles. But that brings up B, wrongful convictions happen all the time and you’re right, it is final.
C) Cutting the cost of putting someone to death just increases the chances that you’re putting the wrong person to death. It’s expensive cause that’s the best way to ensure that it’s being done right. Cutting costs just means you’re going to make more mistakes.
D) The reason we can’t do it humanely is because anyone with the training to do it right doesn’t want to participate in the process. It’s not that we’re not smart enough. And even if we can do it painlessly, it doesn’t mean that it’s still not a horrible experience.
Why are you putting people do death? What’s the purpose? Cause it makes you feel better that this person isn’t alive anymore? Then that’s a terrible reason.
So they won’t do it again? We already have them locked up, they’re done commiting crimes.
So it stops others from doing it? Well, we already know that doesn’t work.
So what’s the reason?
I appreciate your points and they are valid.I agree with you for the most part honestly. If there was video evidence of them committing the crimes I could see expediting the process. But with AI now even that isn’t 100%. The most reasonable argument for it I’ve heard goes something like the following. The person being put to death should never have the opportunity to experience happiness again. Which they will have the opportunity to do while incarcerated. They will enjoy a book, make a friend, have a good conversation or enjoy drugs/exercise. I don’t really have any empathy for a serial rapist and I don’t personally believe a person like that deserves or is capable of any type or rehabilitation.
So they won’t do it again? We already have them locked up, they’re done commiting crimes.
People run gangs while inside. Being incarcerated definitely doesn’t stop them from committing crimes.
So because we have a poorly run prison system, we should just murder people instead since we’re too lazy to fix it?
Those are your opinions, not mine. I didn’t offer an opinion on capital punishment. I just pointed out the pretty f’n obvious flaw in your logic.
I didn’t offer my opinion on the death penalty. You made an absurd claim to support your position; I merely pointed out how wildly wrong you were.
Well put
You cannot be punished if you are dead. The death penalty is just convenient catharsis and a release of burden for the living.
Not the death penalty, but the lost prophets guy who got stabbed to death recently got off easy. Death was too good for him.
Not the death penalty, but the lost prophets guy who got stabbed to death recently got off easy. Death was too good for him.
Yeah I’m 1000% against the death penalty but I also reserve the right to feel that people like him deserve death or worse. I reserve the right to feel schadenfreude and to celebrate when monsters are destroyed, even if I think that rehabilitation would be a better outcome if possible in finite time.
I’m against it. It does nothing to protect people that a life sentence doesn’t do. It’s permanent, there’s no correcting for mistakes. It’s about punishment, not deterrent.
Killing even a killer when there’s an option to lock them up instead is unnecessary. It smacks of religious/moral judgement that is beyond what a justice system should be focused on. If an afterlife exists and is run by some supernatural deity(ies), they will take care of punishment.
That’s a reasonable view. I agree with just about everything you’ve said. I don’t see how its a religous judgement necessarily though.
Killing even a killer when there’s an option to lock them up instead is unnecessary.
So if keeping them locked up is not an option, say in a emergency situation or a failed state, you’d be okay with it?
If killing people is wrong, its wrong.
Ummm, checks notes, yes, killing people is wrong.
So, checks notes, we shouldn’t do it. State sanctioned murder is still, checks notes, murder.
Our notes appear to be in alignment. Let the minutes show that 1. Murder is wrong and 2. We shouldn’t do it.
I’m all against death penalty in any form, except perhaps for some fascist leaderships. There are those who deserve to dance the Spandau ballet.
I just dont understand that rationale. I’ve seen it among several comments here. Killing is killing, if you’ve got a moral issue with it, why be inconsistent. Wouldn’t the argument that life in prison would be worse be applicable to any person?
I think even one innocent person being executed makes it all not worth it. Though that may be clouded by the facts, it doesn’t deter crime and it costs more than life imprisonment.
In a perfect world, I think the death penalty could have a deterrence effect for white collar crime. I’d support the death penalty in that case. The line I draw where the death penalty is deserved is when someone systematically makes the world a worse place. Even serial killers don’t reach that threshold for me.
There’s no world where we can do that without ever executing an innocent person though. So I am firmly against the death penalty.
I’d be against it even if we could magically know without a doubt the person’s guilty. Even if it had a negative cost. Even for raping a child.
Life is sacred, whatever “sacred” means for an atheist like me.
(And I was raped as a child, fwiw.)I agree, but for a different reason. I don’t think life is sacred, but as an atheist I do think people get off the hook too easily if they’re just killed. I think it’s fair for them to suffer the rest of their lifetime, just like the victims did.
I think it’s wrong to knowingly inflict suffering in others in any capacity.
I think the death penalty is more about vengeance than justice. If they’re going to happen the execution should be swift, public and if there were credible eyewitnesses to the crime, brutal!.
I am all for it. I can think of dozens of reasons that people should be put down.
Does the method of execution matter to me? Yes.
Does the crime matter? Absolutely
Does the cost matter? No.
In this reality of fallible humans, ineptness, and corruption then no.
However, if it was guaranteed that the person was definitely guilty of certain crimes (such as raping kids. Being a fascist dictator. Premeditated murder. Spraying yourself orange and shitting yourself etc etc) then yeah I’m ok with it.
Ok, life is sacred and all that but if a person is steadfastly evil then they don’t deserve life.
And you get to determine who is “steadfastly evil”?
Yes. No one knows what happens when you die, no one truly knows if someone is guilty, no judicial system is perfect etc etc. Too much risk for the reward of killing someone (with a 10 ish percent of being innocent)
The death penalty is incredibly stupid for more than one reason.
- If someone committed a crime that egregious, they should be punished every day, and you should help them live as long as possible.
- So many innocent people are put to death because our system for determining guilt is far from righteous, or right.
- You don’t talk about Fight Club.
So, I wholeheartedly agree with 2. Its the most reasonable and realistic argument against it in my opinion. I do have an issue with 1. Prison/incarnation will eventually become the new normal. Individuals will enjoy reading a book, making a friend, do drugs and in most cases continue criminal activity. In some cases even send information out, effectively running criminal enterprises from the inside. They wont be free, but, they won’t be as unhappy as people like to think.
You don’t talk about Fight Club.
No, but you mix PPV and Fight Club and it’s the best reality show ever.
In a just society it will always cost more to execute a person than it would cost to imprison them for life. If that’s always going to be the case in a just society you may as well imprison them for life. The outcome is the same.
The reason execution should always cost more is because you have to be absolutely sure to the best of our abilities that the person is guilty. Until we come up with a fool proof way to determine guilt we will always run the risk of executing the wrong person for a crime.
Against, regardless of crime. Regardless of the system used to kill. Regardless of the system used to convict or identify the criminal. Even if they are unrepentant and said they’d do it again. Even under a perfect justice system.
Now life in prison, sure.
Why is life in prison any better or worse? In your opinion.
