or having the possibility of making better choices in the future
How’s that working out for you if you look at the past few elections? Did you manage to push Biden left? Have they prosecuted the American war criminals? How far is Genocide Joe from your ideal? Is Copmala gonna be better, improving material circumstances?
Can’t you see that neoliberalism had literally the opposite effect - pushed everything even more right and extreme?
Americans have this weird view of Russians and Putinists and liberals think that the Chinese are a brainwashed hivemind— but you look crazy from the outside when you argue for voting Mussolini against Hitler.
Democrats supported genocide and their brinkmanship with Russia got us closer to Nuclear Armageddon, fuck y’all
Oh yeah, how’s being a douchebag on the Internet working out for you as a replacement for democracy. It’s easy to criticize the flaws. It’s a lot harder to come up with something better. I never said it was working well, for the record. I said I’d like to keep the possiblity of it working open for the future, because let’s be real, if you have the resources to remake America, you have the resources to win an election. The fundamental problem with leftists is that we’re mostly smug assholes who refuse to work with anyone we disagree with, and until that changes we will remain completely irrelevant.
Uh huh. I notice you didn’t actually bother to name any. There are certainly lots of ways that democracy could be reformed for the better that have been shafted by the Democrats and Republicans, and I would love to see any of them get implemented, but it’s not going to happen in the next 3 months. We’d actually have to get more of us to keep pushing for it between elections and start at smaller scales than national elections for it to ever make any progress. As for options for something that isn’t democratic at all, every alternative I’ve heard is just even worse.
There were plenty of mildly progressive candidates that could have done things in power were modern America not a neoliberal hellhole. Beanie, AOC, the squad, Jill stien, Claudia de la cuz. Those are the current ones. Going further back, people like gore or nader could have played the role. But all of these people either got shafted through institutional factors or got cooped and forced to water down even their milquetoast radicalism. Many of these people were neutered by the Democrats.
On the movement level, the Democrats coopted, neutered then mutilated the corpse of the BLM social unrest in 2020, which could have been used to otherwise fuel a lot of progressive changes. Instead, the dems not only killed it, but poured salt on the wounds by increasing police budgets nationwide and even helping to build cop cities and expanding surveillance now!
The fact that the Democrats are less rabid than the Republicans does not make them easier enemies to deal with, but more dangerous. They have more patience and play the long game.
The fundamental problem with leftists is that we’re mostly smug assholes who refuse to work with anyone we disagree with,
I’m not American - I’m saying you are worse than what liberals say Russian and Chinese are
anyone we disagree with,
Economically they are neoliberals - leftists are opposed to neoliberalism
Their foreign policy is brinkmanship, genocide and bombing allied infrastructure
This is 0/2- how are they not enemies rather than “someone I disagree with”?
until that changes we will remain completely irrelevant.
You will remain irrelevant because you’d vote D whatever they do. It seems like you represent the Dems as a project whatever they do, rather than they represent the voter base, earning votes.
Which is ass backwards.
Who said anything about supporting them. I’m willing to take on my enemies one at a time starting with the worst of the lot.
By the way, I already gave a list of things that I think the Democrats are better than Republicans on at the very start of this whole conversion chain, but I guess you can’t remember that long ago when it doesn’t suit your narrative.
Who said anything about unconditionally? You’re just making shit up. They are clearly, objectively least terrible viable option right now in 2024. If that changes I will be glad to dump them, but for now I have to live in the real world. I hope some day you can join me here.
Whether you like it or not they don’t see your vote as an endorsement of the marginal differences, they see it as an endrosement of everything they’re doing, including that genocide thats going on.
I don’t think Harris will do what I want. I’ll try to put as much pressure as I can on her if she becomes president, but I don’t really expect much in the way of results. I just want the option that will result in the smallest number of innocent people dying and the least rights lost for those who live over the next 4 years. That option is clearly Harris, even if the differences are marginal.
If genocide doesn’t change the calculus in your mind, then nothing ever will. And genocide is only like the tip of the iceberg in terms of problems with the democratic party.
The Biden admin has single handedly fucked my budget despite me living in europe by bombing the nordstream and the shit they pulled with project Ukraine.
They are actively trying to drag humanity into world war 3 on like 3 different fronts. That’s not getting into the shit the Biden admin is probably pulling in Africa and Latin America (which I am less knowledgeable about).
Jesus fucking Christ how fucking stupid are you? I don’t get the option I want. I’ve never gotten the option I want. I don’t want any of these options. All of the options are bad, but some bad things are worse than others. How can you not get such a basic concept? I can’t actually believe you’re really this stupid. It can’t be real. Why the fuck are you in here telling me your farts smell like roses? What the fuck is this bullshit?
But you would be 50% less insufferable if you were actually completely, utterly ashamed about voting for the Dems, and spent 100% of your commenting energy scolding mainstream liberals for giving absolute dogshit neocon candidates in their purported fight against fascism.
But you are not ashamed, you are shamelessly scolding leftists who don’t want to vote for people committing genocide right now
You are absolutely out of your depth here and should just fuck back off to your radlib bubble
We are not going to convince you, since you are a clown, and you are clearly ineffective when you try to argue against actual leftists
How’s that working out for you if you look at the past few elections? Did you manage to push Biden left? Have they prosecuted the American war criminals? How far is Genocide Joe from your ideal? Is Copmala gonna be better, improving material circumstances?
Can’t you see that neoliberalism had literally the opposite effect - pushed everything even more right and extreme?
Americans have this weird view of Russians and Putinists and liberals think that the Chinese are a brainwashed hivemind— but you look crazy from the outside when you argue for voting Mussolini against Hitler.
Democrats supported genocide and their brinkmanship with Russia got us closer to Nuclear Armageddon, fuck y’all
Oh yeah, how’s being a douchebag on the Internet working out for you as a replacement for democracy. It’s easy to criticize the flaws. It’s a lot harder to come up with something better. I never said it was working well, for the record. I said I’d like to keep the possiblity of it working open for the future, because let’s be real, if you have the resources to remake America, you have the resources to win an election. The fundamental problem with leftists is that we’re mostly smug assholes who refuse to work with anyone we disagree with, and until that changes we will remain completely irrelevant.
We had better options many times in history. They all got shafted by the dems or republicans.
Uh huh. I notice you didn’t actually bother to name any. There are certainly lots of ways that democracy could be reformed for the better that have been shafted by the Democrats and Republicans, and I would love to see any of them get implemented, but it’s not going to happen in the next 3 months. We’d actually have to get more of us to keep pushing for it between elections and start at smaller scales than national elections for it to ever make any progress. As for options for something that isn’t democratic at all, every alternative I’ve heard is just even worse.
There were plenty of mildly progressive candidates that could have done things in power were modern America not a neoliberal hellhole. Beanie, AOC, the squad, Jill stien, Claudia de la cuz. Those are the current ones. Going further back, people like gore or nader could have played the role. But all of these people either got shafted through institutional factors or got cooped and forced to water down even their milquetoast radicalism. Many of these people were neutered by the Democrats.
On the movement level, the Democrats coopted, neutered then mutilated the corpse of the BLM social unrest in 2020, which could have been used to otherwise fuel a lot of progressive changes. Instead, the dems not only killed it, but poured salt on the wounds by increasing police budgets nationwide and even helping to build cop cities and expanding surveillance now!
The fact that the Democrats are less rabid than the Republicans does not make them easier enemies to deal with, but more dangerous. They have more patience and play the long game.
I’m not American - I’m saying you are worse than what liberals say Russian and Chinese are
This is 0/2- how are they not enemies rather than “someone I disagree with”?
You will remain irrelevant because you’d vote D whatever they do. It seems like you represent the Dems as a project whatever they do, rather than they represent the voter base, earning votes.
Which is ass backwards.
Who said anything about supporting them. I’m willing to take on my enemies one at a time starting with the worst of the lot.
By the way, I already gave a list of things that I think the Democrats are better than Republicans on at the very start of this whole conversion chain, but I guess you can’t remember that long ago when it doesn’t suit your narrative.
Who said anything about unconditionally? You’re just making shit up. They are clearly, objectively least terrible viable option right now in 2024. If that changes I will be glad to dump them, but for now I have to live in the real world. I hope some day you can join me here.
Whether you like it or not they don’t see your vote as an endorsement of the marginal differences, they see it as an endrosement of everything they’re doing, including that genocide thats going on.
I don’t think Harris will do what I want. I’ll try to put as much pressure as I can on her if she becomes president, but I don’t really expect much in the way of results. I just want the option that will result in the smallest number of innocent people dying and the least rights lost for those who live over the next 4 years. That option is clearly Harris, even if the differences are marginal.
If genocide doesn’t change the calculus in your mind, then nothing ever will. And genocide is only like the tip of the iceberg in terms of problems with the democratic party.
The Biden admin has single handedly fucked my budget despite me living in europe by bombing the nordstream and the shit they pulled with project Ukraine.
They are actively trying to drag humanity into world war 3 on like 3 different fronts. That’s not getting into the shit the Biden admin is probably pulling in Africa and Latin America (which I am less knowledgeable about).
Jesus fucking Christ how fucking stupid are you? I don’t get the option I want. I’ve never gotten the option I want. I don’t want any of these options. All of the options are bad, but some bad things are worse than others. How can you not get such a basic concept? I can’t actually believe you’re really this stupid. It can’t be real. Why the fuck are you in here telling me your farts smell like roses? What the fuck is this bullshit?
You are a moron.
But you would be 50% less insufferable if you were actually completely, utterly ashamed about voting for the Dems, and spent 100% of your commenting energy scolding mainstream liberals for giving absolute dogshit neocon candidates in their purported fight against fascism.
But you are not ashamed, you are shamelessly scolding leftists who don’t want to vote for people committing genocide right now
You are absolutely out of your depth here and should just fuck back off to your radlib bubble
We are not going to convince you, since you are a clown, and you are clearly ineffective when you try to argue against actual leftists