What’s the point of the sidebar’s rules if the mods are going to bury their heads in the sand about the lemmy.world-lib bot-farm

  • Mossy Feathers (She/They)@pawb.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    7 months ago

    My general understanding of socialism is A) “seize the means of production, comrade” B) capitalism assumes the one with the money benefits the economy the most, socialism assumes the one who does work benefits the economy the most, C) because of B, capitalism projects power down the hierarchy, while socialism projects power upwards.

    What am I missing?

    • KidnappedByKitties@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      7 months ago

      What a neatly succinct way to put your understanding, well phrased.

      It’s unfortunately conflating economic policy with social policy, and is quite divorced from anything happening since 1917. Most of Europe lives in democratic socialism, which combines none of A), with none of B).

      From the power perspective you’re mostly right though, in socialism it’s the citizen that has rights, in capitalism it’s capital. Meaning that voting and influence stems from different fundamental perspectives, sometimes different enough that they aren’t opposed (like in most western DemSoc).

      Economic socialism typically means that the purpose of the economy is to raise the standard of living for the citizens, this typically means providing healthcare, infrastructure like roads, housing and clean water, and affordable goods. And usually leads to equalising tax structures, with progressive taxation of the affluent, and higher tax burden in the things that exploit/hinder the societal good, like companies, damaging luxuries (like alcohol, sugar) and pollution.

      Ideologically it typically means that every citizen has the right to a comfortable and fulfilling life, where emphasis and understanding differs across the world. And it typically translates to citizens having equal, unalienable rights, with support structures in place for the more vulnerable. That could be that official documents are made available in multiple languages, more flexible voting arrangements, advocacy and support for infirm, elderly and marginalised groups. I’d simplify it as: every citizen is entitled to a comfortable and fulfilling life, and all the support they need to live it.

      Politically the focus is on common good, with as little individual impingement as possible. Universal healthcare and education are great investments in the national economy, so is child and elder care, which frees up the workforce from other chores. Support for the arts, hobbies, and recreational spaces is common, as is public beautification, public forums, parks/nature preserves.

      But none of this is in necessary opposition to capitalism, which isn’t a political system of governance more than economic anarchy. Capitalism doesn’t by itself have any aims, ideology, or principles about voting rights, it simply wants capital to produce more capital, and would in the extreme not have any voting rights beyond what you can create with your capital.

      In the US it translates through liberalism to policy, where small governance leaves more room for individually powerful citizens, of which capital is increasingly the dominant party.

      • алсааас [she/they]@lemmy.dbzer0.comM
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        7 months ago

        What in the love of Marx is this? Europe living in democratic socialism? In what world? Socialism is specifically the public ownership of the means of production (aka. economy), which is not in place anywhere in Europe atm. All of the stuff you mentioned are remnants of a withering Keynesian welfare state, funded by (neo-)colonialism/imperialism

        And no, economy and politics are not seperable. Economics is inherently political and politics is inherently economical. Just as material and social conditions are inseparable