Tbh, but maybe this is my Christian upbringing, it’s always been women IME wanting to “plan the wedding on the second date” or “needing marriage and children to be a complete human being”
Or maybe it’s just cherry picking from bad experiences for both genders
I need to learn more than anyone that women don’t always want marriage and kids, that belief has stopped me dating for almost 4 years.
This is backwards, in my personal experience. Marriage benefits men, women are the ones at risk from pregnancy and childbirth and usually having kids impacts women’s careers more than men’s. Plus we can have kids without a relationship if we want them, that’s more difficult for men.
Now do SOME girls dream of a wedding and see a guy as an accessory, just a means to an end? Sure. I don’t know any of them but I’m sure they exist. It’s certainly a trope in stories.
women are the ones at risk from pregnancy and childbirth and usually having kids impacts women’s careers
Exactly. That’s why I would think women would want marriage: sex is higher risk for them, and in the case of children they want a committed secondary caregiver. Very few people want to be a single parent. I can’t think of any reasons a man would want to marry other than kids, the same reason a woman would want to marry. It’s not like a wife is a maid or a status symbol these days. Most of my male married coworkers are disadvantaged by family life at work compared to myself. And given it’s true that men make more money than women on average, the woman get’s the better end of the financial deal as well.
Doing a quick google search, it seems men and women want marriage about equally, but men want kids slightly more. Anecdotally in my 30’s this doesn’t seem to track, and the poll age ends at 34 XD.
Now do SOME girls dream of a wedding and see a guy as an accessory, just a means to an end? Sure. I don’t know any of them but I’m sure they exist. It’s certainly a trope in stories.
I guess I just thought of a guy as one more thing to take care of? I really never envisioned a long term relationship, as a young woman, but was absolutely sure I wanted kids.
It has become more equal now, I’m sure. Or at least I hope. My husband was a single dad so we do both feel like it’s easier with both of us. But our exes - being single parents was considerably easier than parenting together with them. So that can go either way. A helpful partner is a wonderful thing, yes.
That used to be the stereotype in the past, but at least as far back as I recall (late Gen-Xer), it wasn’t as prevalent an attitude as most people thought. Past feminist influence reduced a lot of that pressure but now it’s coming back via manosphere essentialism.
I think when you get into your 30s most people are looking to settle down somewhat. Most people are tired of dating, yet at the same time, most people still dating in their 30s have a reason they are single in their 30s XD
Women in the US were first allowed to have bank accounts of their own in the 70s. We were also frequently barred from higher-paying jobs, and the few jobs we did have access to often fired us if they found out we were dating/pregnant. Because we’d ’only care about the kids’, we’d ’always be gone popping out more kids’, we ‘needed to settle down with a man like a proper lady’, and on and on.
Until recently, getting married was absolutely a requirement for a woman to have a stable life, and as men were pressured to choose young, ‘nubile’ women, there was a ticking clock on the chance to hook up.
Many religious groups try to keep this pressure up even these days, telling women that they belong in the home, that making babies is the only proper calling… they also try to ensure women in their group are not as well-educated so they’re forced to rely on men who are getting the higher-paying jobs.
I really don’t think the 1970s women’s suffrage movement is of primary focus in 20-30 something’s minds when they decide whether or not they want to get married.
Not consciously maybe, but the ripples still echo. Aside from religious groups trying to pretend things are still structured that way, these kids’ parents most likely grew up in that environment, and movie producers (and lots of video game makers, for that matter) did too. And they often seem to forget that things have changed.
So the message they put into media is ‘guys, if you don’t have a well-paying job and a wife by the time you’re 30, you’re a loser who didn’t try hard!’ and ‘gals, if you’re not married to some well-off dude and a homemaker with multiple kids by the time you’re 25, you’re a useless old maid!’
If that’s the message you hear from all angles, then that’s the message you’re going to internalize, even if the evidence of your eyes shows things don’t work that way anymore. I’ve met several younger guys who seem to think if they’re successful then they ’deserve’ a woman, because what happens to the successful man in movies and games? He gets the girl at the end.
Tbh, but maybe this is my Christian upbringing, it’s always been women IME wanting to “plan the wedding on the second date” or “needing marriage and children to be a complete human being”
Or maybe it’s just cherry picking from bad experiences for both genders
I need to learn more than anyone that women don’t always want marriage and kids, that belief has stopped me dating for almost 4 years.
This is backwards, in my personal experience. Marriage benefits men, women are the ones at risk from pregnancy and childbirth and usually having kids impacts women’s careers more than men’s. Plus we can have kids without a relationship if we want them, that’s more difficult for men.
Now do SOME girls dream of a wedding and see a guy as an accessory, just a means to an end? Sure. I don’t know any of them but I’m sure they exist. It’s certainly a trope in stories.
Exactly. That’s why I would think women would want marriage: sex is higher risk for them, and in the case of children they want a committed secondary caregiver. Very few people want to be a single parent. I can’t think of any reasons a man would want to marry other than kids, the same reason a woman would want to marry. It’s not like a wife is a maid or a status symbol these days. Most of my male married coworkers are disadvantaged by family life at work compared to myself. And given it’s true that men make more money than women on average, the woman get’s the better end of the financial deal as well.
Doing a quick google search, it seems men and women want marriage about equally, but men want kids slightly more. Anecdotally in my 30’s this doesn’t seem to track, and the poll age ends at 34 XD.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/15/among-young-adults-without-children-men-are-more-likely-than-women-to-say-they-want-to-be-parents-someday/
Lol I sure do.
I guess I just thought of a guy as one more thing to take care of? I really never envisioned a long term relationship, as a young woman, but was absolutely sure I wanted kids.
It has become more equal now, I’m sure. Or at least I hope. My husband was a single dad so we do both feel like it’s easier with both of us. But our exes - being single parents was considerably easier than parenting together with them. So that can go either way. A helpful partner is a wonderful thing, yes.
That used to be the stereotype in the past, but at least as far back as I recall (late Gen-Xer), it wasn’t as prevalent an attitude as most people thought. Past feminist influence reduced a lot of that pressure but now it’s coming back via manosphere essentialism.
I think when you get into your 30s most people are looking to settle down somewhat. Most people are tired of dating, yet at the same time, most people still dating in their 30s have a reason they are single in their 30s XD
Women in the US were first allowed to have bank accounts of their own in the 70s. We were also frequently barred from higher-paying jobs, and the few jobs we did have access to often fired us if they found out we were dating/pregnant. Because we’d ’only care about the kids’, we’d ’always be gone popping out more kids’, we ‘needed to settle down with a man like a proper lady’, and on and on.
Until recently, getting married was absolutely a requirement for a woman to have a stable life, and as men were pressured to choose young, ‘nubile’ women, there was a ticking clock on the chance to hook up.
Many religious groups try to keep this pressure up even these days, telling women that they belong in the home, that making babies is the only proper calling… they also try to ensure women in their group are not as well-educated so they’re forced to rely on men who are getting the higher-paying jobs.
I really don’t think the 1970s women’s suffrage movement is of primary focus in 20-30 something’s minds when they decide whether or not they want to get married.
But yes I’m aware.
Not consciously maybe, but the ripples still echo. Aside from religious groups trying to pretend things are still structured that way, these kids’ parents most likely grew up in that environment, and movie producers (and lots of video game makers, for that matter) did too. And they often seem to forget that things have changed.
So the message they put into media is ‘guys, if you don’t have a well-paying job and a wife by the time you’re 30, you’re a loser who didn’t try hard!’ and ‘gals, if you’re not married to some well-off dude and a homemaker with multiple kids by the time you’re 25, you’re a useless old maid!’
If that’s the message you hear from all angles, then that’s the message you’re going to internalize, even if the evidence of your eyes shows things don’t work that way anymore. I’ve met several younger guys who seem to think if they’re successful then they ’deserve’ a woman, because what happens to the successful man in movies and games? He gets the girl at the end.