I’ve had several conversations/arguments recently with my brother making clear my system of values and my hatred for the wealthy. He is nearly diametrically opposed on all accounts and often makes light of their actions. He goes so far as to say that poor people and people in need of social services should have to figure things out for themselves. He often defends Elon Musk and champions him for being self made.
He is getting married in a foreign country soon and I have been able to put aside our differences and have been planning on going
…up until yesterday that is. I asked him of his thoughts on Musk’s seig heil maneuver and he sent a right wing meme of democratic leaders caught mid wave, saying that “they did it first”. He continued to be avoidant and didn’t respond to me calling it a strawman.
In this moment it feels necessary to cancel my plans to send a message that this is not ok. Am I the (or an) asshole for not going to his wedding because of this?
the current pantomime is clearly designed to divide us and it’s working quite well.
you wouldn’t be an arsehole, but divide and conquer is exactly what they want
Who are “they” in this situation? Maybe I’m completely blinded by leftist propaganda but the divide seems pretty inherent to the differences in my brother’s values to my own.
obviously this is all just my opinion, but it seems evident to me:
the oligarchs.
they’ve realised their best shot at power is by dividing us cos there’s no way this shit would fly otherwise. that’s why they’ve been flooding us with every single possible topic of division, black vs white, straight vs lgbqt, even lgb vs trans (!!!), young vs old, boomers vs millenials. city vs rural.
all of that said, if you just don’t think you can stomach the wedding event then you’re nta imo.
I get where you’re coming from but I’ve conceptually divorced my brother from these black and white dichotomies for my whole life, and to what cost on my own psyche? Ultimately we do have to pick sides and cultivate our own systems of values based on the world around us. He is not a neutral individual, nor am I.
To me there is only one true dichotomy and he has chosen the side of oligarchy and I have not.
“Ultimately we do have to pick sides” Do we? Skepticism and reserving judgement is truly extinct I guess. These false dilemmas perpetuate the oligarch’s rule.
God beckons you to escape the illusion of non-illusion. Who’s side does she “have to pick”?
Moving the goalposts… Nazis WANT to move those. They are allies of capitalists, because Nazis favour a very top-down economic structure, where large coorporations work with the government to maximise profit. In that regard. Nazis often think that if they bootlick coorporations and dictators enough, they can acquire all the wealth and power – which they don’t.
If someone needs to reconcile, it’s the Nazis by denazifying entirely. Not the normal people. THEN we can fight capitalism together as united forces.
I cut my sister out of my life and didn’t go to her wedding for similar reasons. I don’t regret it one bit and it has helped my mental health tremendously. However, I didn’t do it to “teach her a lesson,” or “prove anything,” I did it so I could live with myself, and stay true to my values. We all only have limited time and energy on this planet, so think about the way you spend them and what’s most important to you. For me, my biological family is toxic. My chosen family is awesome.
I relate to this very strongly. And maybe it’s not an AITAH type question — I think of it as doing something for myself more than anything else. Sure I might lose relationships with family members but what will I gain emotionally and mentally? And will that outweigh the familial loss in the long run? … Lots to think about
Feel free to reach out to me directly if I can be a sounding board or anything. Best of luck…it’s certainly not easy, but for me, it was worth the introspection and effort.
Really? How hard is it to not talk politics.
With right wingers, it’s completely impossible.
In theory, would be much better to keep debating calmly without personal attacks. Further polarizing society, calling each other Nazi and Commie will lead to a civil war in the end. I know this is difficult, when there is no common ground, and neither facts not science exist anymore.
Either way some people will think you’re an asshole.
In a vacuum, yeah obviously he’s being a piece of shit. I’m honestly not really sure what his point is in saying Democrats did it first? So… it’s ok because they did it first? Or it’s bad, but we’re only saying something because the other team did it (“it’s [d]ifferent”)?
Frankly, your brother might just be a fucking idiot that believes whatever is put in front of him. That sucks, especially when you have to hear his regurgitated Nazi apologia, but it’s fuzzier whether that means you shouldn’t go to his wedding.
I mean, it’s also possible that he’s actively malignant, but his response indicates to me a lack of critical thinking.
And if you want to skip your brother’s wedding because he’s an idiot, then that’s ok! You get to set your own rules and boundaries based on your values and what you are willing to tolerate.
Personally, I’d probably go. Sure, he has shitty beliefs, but if that’s only because they were spoon fed in meme format to him, is that his fault? Or is that the fault of whatever algorithm he’s subjected to (which is likely under pro-billionaire influence)?
Either way, I’d recommend spending some time thinking about it before you decide.
To me this seems like a no-brainer. Don’t go.
Why would you go to an assholes wedding? I’m currently planning a wedding and if I invited someone that didn’t like me, I’d honestly rather they not come.
So. I’m not sure why you think you’d be considered an asshole. You’re two different people that aren’t friends and don’t see eye to eye. Why would you go to his wedding?
Maybe they are friends but have different political and social values. That happens.
If supporting fascists in taking over the USA is a deal-breaker to you, thats totally understandable though. But remember it is the easy way out, convincing them would be the right thing but much harder.
Because it is their brother’s wedding and there’s a chance he won’t be a fascist in the future but he’ll always be family?
Family means nothing. Spend your time with people you love and who love you. Don’t spend time around nazi-apologists.
That’sa sad perspective to have on family.
Spoken like someone who’s family loves them.
I think blind allegiance to family is a much more sad perspective
That’s really sad. Family should be a source of love and support even when you are in a bad place. Im sorry if that hasn’t been the case for you.
I’m not trying to start a fight here.
Your comments come off as someone who is naive to how bad many families are to the point of having a disneyfied view of family.I’m really glad your personal experience has been great, but please know that is not as common as you think.
I wouldn’t go to a Nazi wedding either.
Weddings are gay and musk is a buffoon beyond compare.
None of this is worth even typing about if you desire truth. If you want assurance you are dumber than your bro and --trump-- musk if you let this petty ish tilt you in the slightest
People cut out family members for much less. I feel we are at a crucial turning point, and all we have left is letting the people we have a connection to know, that these stances are radical and not normal and that having them will have consequences. In your case not having a sibling at their wedding.
He is getting married in a foreign country soon
Where is he getting married? Plan a nice holiday in this country and take half a day to attend the wedding just for showing your face. Stand at the back of the room, make sure enough people see you to say you were there, then slowly back away and continue with your nice holiday of the country.
Or save your money and get absolutely loaded on blackjack and hookers back home.
Or save your money and get absolutely loaded on blackjack and hookers back home.
Not exactly what I’d call a healthy coping mechanism in face of emotional stress.
I think a lot of people would cut contact with their family at times like this due to the ways in which these kinds of beliefs often intersect with massive amounts of interpersonal abuse and broadly dysfunctional and unhappy relationships. I think this is most especially true of people who are queer, neurodivergent, disabled, or a member of some other minority, who are easily going to be subject by that abuse from their family more and more, especially as they may be more dependent on them and as they’re more noticeably going to see that abuse well up as a result of those narratives. You know, people who get to see the “ugly sides” of their family.
I would say that if you’re not actively dependent on your family, and you’re not part of an actively hated minority which they will more easily discard, disrespect, and abuse, then that makes it easier to cut them out of your life, but that’s also definitely a time at which you will counterintuitively be in the best position to sway them, since you’re at your most secure.
So I would say that this is, in some part, a decision which you should probably make in reflection of your current material circumstances, the current state of your life. This also isn’t a decision which you need to make right now, really, to cut him out of your life or decide to blow this particular one up. You said he’s already married, and that your other two brothers aren’t going, so one more probably won’t hurt things that much even if you invent an excuse.
I’m like 90% sure if I showed my dad the picture of elon musk hitting the five knuckle shuffle live on stage in 4k 60fps three times in a row, he’d probably flee to the “my heart goes out to you” comment, right before trying to find some sort of talking point he could throw down the hopper in order to justify this shit, which is really to say nothing of the fact that he basically just fundamentally agrees with elon’s actions on basically every level if he was to actually sit down and think about it for long enough. There’s some people which cannot be helped, because they will repeatedly choose not to be. There isn’t exactly a correct answer, here, I think the major thing is that if it goes sideways because of your decisions, you shouldn’t beat yourself up or crash out over it, or become overly callous.
This thread made me delete lemmy - bye
This family clearly has issues, most do.
The 20 posts suggesting to ditch your family to punish them instead of talking and expressing how it bothers you is where you lost me.
I guess this is how you create echo chambers. I disagree with the majority of the opinions here, and unlike family I have no motivation to keep listening to this.
Enjoy!
Realise that you’re choosing to listen to Nazis rather than not interact with them, or not to listen to them.
Habe you perhaps considered that you might be the problem? Sure, someone is family. But if that family member were to constantly make horrid remarks – would you then really want to spend that energy having a dinner with them?
For your mental health, it’s better not to.
NTA. A fascist is no longer family. You don’t even need the context for this, the red line is so brightly painted there that you’d have to be dead not to notice it.
Seems overly dramatic. I don’t think you’re an asshole, but somebody who should realize you don’t deeadicalize your family by being emotionally unstable.
The emotionally unstable one is the Nazi :3
Wanting to have people die/suffer for being Jewish, Palestinian, queer, or whatever, that IS emotional instability. Normal people don’t want others to die. :3
Nah, don’t go if you don’t want to. Family are just randomly assinged people you share the same genes with. If you don’t like them you don’t have to force yourself to like them in order to appease random strangers online.
If he truly is your family and loves you, like all the “YOU ARE DOING WHAT” posters are saying, he will understand and not hate you. If he does, fuck him.
No offence but this is advice of a traumatized child. This is not how families should be and if this is yours, you need genuine therapy, definetly not giving others advice on family. Op do not listen to this
No offense, but this is advice from someone that’s not related to a rabbid wolverine with a toothache and a chemical imbalance. Some relatives are fucking nightmares, and no amount of tolerance is gonna change that. Walking away is sometimes the best for your mental health. Can confirm. My psycho sister disowning the whole family was the greatest gift she ever gave us.
OP, unless you’re in therapy and Shezzgrad is your licensed professional help, then ignore their advice.
You’re kinda making it clear your projecting your own family issues onto op as my original comment to you. I have a psycho sister too, thing is, there’s a difference between differences in thought and being a literal fucking psycho, psycho is sending is shattering the family at the drop of the hat because you feel slighted, thinking Elon is the coolest dude ever (he isn’t) isn’t the same level, things aren’t black and white.
OP, unless you’re in therapy and Shezzgrad is your licensed professional help, then ignore their advice.
When I said it originally I was being a dick, but I think you may want to genuinely consider therapy, family traumas can be everlasting and can really kick in later on in adulthood, your sister experience sounds similar to mine
So it’s not your professional opinion then, Dr.
When I said it originally I was being a dick, but I think you may want to genuinely consider therapy
I, too, was being a dick because you give advice like you’re intimately aware of the situation, when I’m guessing you are not. I’ve done therapy. Didn’t change the fact that I’m related to a person that would shove her kids into traffic if the mood suited. My ultimate point being that just because someone is a relative DOES NOT mean you need to keep them in your life.
And beyond saying i have a psycho sister, what gives you the impression that our experiences are similar? I didn’t give a single detail. Unless we compare notes, that’s just you basing an opinion on your experiences. Projecting, if you will.
Okay dude, whatever you say. You can take your anger out on me, but you’re proving you clearly were projecting your own issues and you need therapy. I hope you work through your issues dude, but your experience aren’t the same as op over here. You’re sister sounds truly awful and I hope you know it isn’t your fault
You’re right in that this is not how families should be. They should be people you care about and trust.
Your family does get a pass for being family; you maybe don’t share the same interests or lifestyle that would otherwise form a distance in childhood friends that eventually fizzles out, but with families this shouldn’t be the case.
But then sometimes your family members end up (or you discover) they are bad people. Yet even then you may stand with them as they sell drugs or rob people or even have killed people; they’re still family and what they’ve done can be understandable even if wrong.
Then there are Nazis and Nazi sympathizers, apologists, and supporters.
Families should stick together, but people also shouldn’t be Nazis. So here we are.
Well said, in my personal opinion we should stick close to family but there are lines, and each person’s lines are different, but I feel generally that line should be for their actions and not their ideas or thoughts. Being a trump supporter Vs a Jan 6 rioter or a proud boy are different levels to me. We should try to change our families mind to an extent, if they can’t or won’t change or if you’re not a great debater. Honestly unless your family hurts others, I can keep it together.
You have the absolute right to skip his wedding, no one can stop you. But like others have mentioned, it would be effectively cutting ties with him permanently. Maybe that’s exactly what you want, maybe you’ll be better off without him, maybe this is the catalyst for you to cut your losses with him and move on, or maybe not. We don’t know the nuances of your relationship with him, so I don’t think anyone on this anonymous forum can make a good faith decision for you, you will have to make it for yourself.
