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I’m literally shaking right now
#FeanorDidNothingWrong
Feanor: Look at this! I’ve made the 3 coolest jewels EWER!!! 🥹
The Gods: Congrats, those are indeed the 3 coolest jewels ever made.
Feanor: I know, right! ☺️
The Gods: Now, hand them over to us.
Feanor:
Morgoth: I wasn’t asking!
The Elves are going to the ships now, and they’re taking their bling.
I think OP lost a comma.
I quite like how Dwarf Fortress treats elves with contempt. If you try to sell them wooden furniture, they sink to their knees and weep at the loss of life, vowing to never trade with you again.
Naturally, this leads to many players inviting an Elven caravan into their fortresses, sealing the doors shut, setting traps, and letting nature take its course
Well I mean arrogance was one of their traits. The elves were the racists of middle Earth
To be completely fair they lived in a world where there actually were real differences between the races. In our world racism is silly because there aren’t any actually relevant differences between the races, but the differences between elves, men, and dwarves are very real in middle earth. Not enough to pull everyone over a comb (to use a swedish proverb), but at least there’s some substance to it.
Would you still say that if you knew Tolkien based elves on early “true” Christians, dwarves on Jews, Western men on Europe as a whole and their decline a metaphor for growing secularism, and the Eastern/Southern men given to evil on brown people who, even worse, aren’t Christian?
Because he did.
I am quite sure he based them on stereotypical views that were prevalent during his times and not actual people. Still he showed that these perceived differences come from their internal worst traits manifesting in their views on others and can be overcome for the good of all.
You are not wrong but nuance in reading is important.
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Those are some nice claims, got any sources for them?
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If your claims are true, it would be a quite kind depiction of stereotypical jews for the times. Dwarves were a very hardy and highly skilled people, who were quite generous with their craft. Almost the only bad traits they had were because of the incredibly powerful magic rings Sauron gave them, which were designed corrupt them and make them his slaves. They almost fully resisted that corruption, just becoming greedy and isolationist instead.
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The story transpires in a world where there are actually good gods that help people and an evil god (Morgoth, and later demigod-ish Sauron) that is trying to corrupt and rule the world. I don’t think the decline of Men is a metaphor for growing secularism (Tolkien was famously a BIG hater of metaphor and allegory as story telling devices) as much as it is a direct consequence of their in-universe growing secularism and the same happening earlier in the world.
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“Eastern/Southern men given to evil on brown people” What do you mean? The Eastern/Southern men are the brown people. The reality of it is that the story is one of war, and we’re seeing it told from people on one side of the war. That means we’re gonna get mainly negative views on the other side. Even so, the first time we see a Man of Harad in the books, the first thought we’re given from one of the characters is Sam thinking this about him:
He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man’s name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace.”
This is to me a nod towards the Men of Harad (at least, likely all the easterlings) not actually being evil but only being decieved by Sauron (the Deciever).
In general, Tolkien was born in 1892. He likely wasn’t a paragon of equality, but i also don’t think he portrays any kind of racism or xenophobia if you look past the very surface level of his writings.
Sure bud.
Source: LotR, Tolkien’s statements on the matter, basic literacy.
“No, in fact Tolkien said the exact opposite. Jews are based on dwarves.”
See how that works when you don’t actually provide a source? To be honest, I have no idea if Tolkien based the races of Middle Earth on human peoples, and would’ve liked to learn if he did. But instead of actually teaching me something, I’m left here with intellectual blue balls, so thank you for a wonderful start to Locktober.
Read a book, dork. Or spend five seconds on Google or your search engine of choice researching something there is quite a lot of commentary on, especially in regards to Jewish stereotypes and the Dwarven language.
Which book?
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There used to be different types of people on earth but we likely killed them all cause of racism 😞
Imagine if we still had other humanoids walking around
I thought the latest research was pointing more toward homogenisation of the species through interbreeding rather than strictly competition or other factors.
OK so I was way off. This has info I was thinking of.
It’d be more accurate to call them species. Elves are specist.
But they can still produce offspring with humans (e.g. Elrond is half-elven), which is usually what defines a species.
Not necessarily. Elves and Humans would be classified as being part of the same genus of species, in this case homo, and members of the same genus can sometimes breed together under abnormal circumstances.
This is how you get ligers, a cross between a lion and a tiger. Both different species, but part of the panthera genus. Or mules, also a cross between two species, but part of the equus genus.
Elves looking down on the other races in middle earth? Say it ain’t so!
See also Galadriel’s words in the prologue to Fellowship of The Ring: Three rings were given to the Elves - immortal, wisest, and fairest of all beings.
I suspect this is about the silmarils and not the rings
Even better
IIRC, Elrond isn’t as stuck-up in the book, but it’s been a year or two since I last read Fellowship.
One of my biggest problems with the movies is that they made Elrond (and all of the other elves) so angry and stodgy, and completely ignored all of the joyful aspects of his character from the books. The elves, especially the Noldor, are a people defined by the way their joy for life is inextricably mixed with sorrow as they fight the long defeat, which is part of what makes them so compelling.
Funnily enough, one of my main problems at first was that they did the opposite to Gandalf in the opening scene: in the book, he’s strict gravitas personified, but in the movie he’s genially chuckling over a line he said seriously in the books.
Granted, he was pretty much spot on for pretty much the rest of the movie, in no small part because of how brilliant Ian McKellen was and is.
I thought Legolas was portrayed as too sympathetic compared to the books, though. His haughty attitude and general jerkness towards the also very proud Gimli was a big part of what fleshed out Gimli as a character.
Making Legolas one of the biggest Marty Stus outside of fan fiction in turn relegated Gimli to almost only a comic relief parody.
There’s a lot said about that particular dynamic and why it exists in the actual dwarf community.
the actual dwarf community.
…you mean like “little people” or whatever the preferred term is? 😛
Agreed. Hugo weaving is a good actor, but played the part so stoically that in my head I automatically insert “, Mr. Anderson” after everything Elrond says as if he’s agent Smith
Frodo reappears after putting the ring on, disorientated from the experience
Elrond: “MISTER BAGGINS!”
Juno Reactor music starts playing
Cut to the Battle of the Morannon, but it’s not an army of Gondor but just an endless stream of Agent Smiths bumrushing the Orcs with Kung Fu.
Yes, elves in the books are a lot more… human.
They feast, they sing, they dance, they do stupid things, they prank each other. If anything they seem the most playful race.
Shit, in The Hobbit, a soldier on duty gets so drunk that he passes out, allowing Bilbo and the Dwarves are able to escape in barrels.
PJ very much took the Elves and said “let’s make them into Star Trek Vulcans!”
I’d say Tolkien is a bit inconsistent in how he portrays elves. In The Hobbit, they are more like frolicking, dancing and singing pixies and in LotR they are more ethereal and aloof like fey.
Jackson chose to stick to the fey aspect.
Aren’t the elves from The Hobbit also a different group? It could just be that they are frolicking weirdos compared to Elrond’s and Galadriel’s elves.
The playful, drunk elves of the Hobbit were wood elves; the stuffy ones were high elves
I think PJ made them a bit too up themselves
(Too stuck up, too snooty, too like the ideal British noble)
It’s literally Elrond in The Hobbit as far as I recall.
I think they’re referring to the Wood Elves they encounter on their way through Mirkwood.
