I mean this library https://github.com/sublinks/sublinks-api
We have a handful of users. Their comments are being federated. They are not making any posts (because without federation there are no replies). Defederation will mean users cannot even comment and will have to abandon ClubsAll. A site being abandoned at this early stage usually means death of site, which I would like to avoid if possible.
This is based on what feels fair to you and not a documented rule. The issue is that everyone has their own version of what is fair - federate out, self hosted, open source, attribution, usernames shown in particular way, exemption (or no exemption) for smaller sites based on time or traffic and so on.
In any case, this is a goal we are working towards. As we discussed before, this will be done before ClubsAll has any meaningful traffic.
Thank you for responding. Here are my plans
There is almost no traffic today, users are not missing out on any content. Since the timelines are not in my hands, my ask is for admins to give me benefit of doubt and be patient until I wait for sublinks federation implementation (or if clubsall have traffic in which case, users will be missing out on content. In that case, I will have to think of something else)
Feel free to ask me anything else.
That is fair to say. We are not trying to have it both ways, just need time to get there. We started with moving to sublinks library. This seems to be the best path forward, but timelines got extended after we found out that federation out is also under development there as well.
Thank you, this is fair. I can explain subdomains. As far as I know, my developer used some subdomains while developing (and trying to understand and make federation working), but eventually settled on api.clubsall.com (he wasnt able to get clubsall.com working). So as of last few months, only domain being used should be api.clubsall.com. If that is not true, do bring that to my attention please.
The issue is that definition of “finish” varies person to person. This is why I am asking for a common set of fair rules we can agree on, so we can finish.
I just checked, the homepage of Clubsall shows content from [email protected], while lemmy.blahaj.zone have you defederated: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/instances, as “clubsall.com” is in the blocked instances. But if we look at the linked instances, there is now “api.clubsall.com” and “clubsall-api4.renchesterjramos.workers.dev”
This is because federation is fairly complex and we are new to this and do not fully understand. I really do not know why we are getting content from lemmy.blahaj.zone when they have blocked us. The content is coming from federation, so how is it being pushed to clubsall after blocking?
You are channeling the traffic from 44k monthly active users to your website without giving credit to the instances where the content is created. In our last discussion, you said “your site is small, so people just ignore it. Should it become more active, then users are probably going to call their admins to defederate.” ClubsAll has not grown. This time you are saying we are not attributing. It seems even you change mind on to what is fair.
My request stays the same, give us some breathing room until some traffic threshold. Is that fair?
Thanks for this. My worry is that other admins have different set of rules. Someone said clubsall should be open sourced, someone said clubsall should be self hostable, another person said, it should attribute posts and have canonical links. Unfortunately the admins do not seem to have common agreed set of rules that are fair. So no matter what we do, it seems we will be blocked. Can we have a viable alternative?
There was a discussion about having a common set of rules which had proposal which is different than yours. So I am requesting some breathing room exception based on traffic, so we can survive until we can develop more or there is a common set of rules agreed to. Would that be fair?
I am creator of ClubsAll, can you ELI5 this to me. What is attribution with canonical tags and how does that break SEO for others?
Hello @[email protected] are there some documented rules of federation that I am missing? Please point me.
Hi there, I am creator of clubsall. We absolutely do care about community.
There were many discussion few months ago. There were also private discussions with some admins. Because we are not lemmy based, so our development takes time (plus my developer left, plus we were trying to move to sublinks which itself has federation issues). So federation for us is not a config setting. Also, we are a very niche site with almost no traffic.
Additionally, different admins feel different rules are fair, so it is hard for us to know how to be good community members. I request a common set of rules, preferably based on traffic, so any newbie can get the breathing room to develop and participate. Does that sound fair?
Our challenge has been that many people feel differently to what is fair. So I have been requesting if all admins can agree to a common set of rules so we can comply with it and be upstanding community members. Is that reasonable request?
Thank you. I request the defederation being traffic based rather than time based. Would that be fair?
Hi there, I am creator of clubsall.
Please see my updates. We are not intentionally blocking federation, we just do not have that capability (as we are not a lemmy instance). So I am requesting common fair set of rules, so I can save clubsall.
Hello there, I am the creator of clubsall. We are not in a hurry. In fact as stated, my developer has left, that has halted our development. Also, we are a very small site with < 10 comments a month and I believe 0 posts. So federation will hardly help everyone. Still we want to implement federation, please read my update above.
My request is to agree on common and fair rules so we can be seen as upstanding community participants.
Hi there, I am creator of clubsall. There are a lot of adhoc discussions and rules. Some discussions such as this one does skip my notice too. So it has been very difficult to be fair and run a new instance. It seems anyone trying to build a lemmy competitor is being killed. If that is the rule, lets state that and I will kill clubsall myself.
If not, can I request a discussion or at least a set of rules that we should comply to so I can save clubsall?
@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected]
Hello @[email protected] and @[email protected] I am the creator of Clubsall. Please see my update above. Based on previous discussion, I was under the impression that until there is meaningful traffic, it is ok to give us time to implement federation. There were a set of rules proposed in another thread. However, seems like the rules were not finalized or not accepted or not distributed. If those rules are not acceptable, can we have a discussion first so we can agree what is fair and I have a chance to save clubsall?
Hello Blaze,
One request, whenever you post about clubsall, can you please tag me so I can also participate? Thank you.
As for this discussion, when we had a discussion last time on reddit, I thought we agreed that as long as there is not meaningful traffic, it should be ok. I guess you were not fully onboard with this.
My request with all admins is - can we agree on some rules. If we block all new sites on hunch or rules as we make up, it will kill anyone trying to do something new.
There was another thread (that I cannot find now) where some rules were proposed. (If someone can find, please reply to this).
There are 2 things being discussed
I can give an update on both of these. As I mentioned previously, someone was helping me in doing some audit, implementing federation and then we could also open source. We were going to use “sublinks”, which would do a number of upgrades. So that seems the right choice moving forward. It will allow self hosting, federation, move to postgres, move to docker etc.
However during implementation we found that sublinks itself does not implement federation out. So we were blocked by that. I checked with developer just few days ago and I was told that since all developers are volunteers and they got busy, federation was delayed. The work will pickup again in new year.
I am not sure when they will be able to finish federation. I can quickly move there once done. However that seems months away.
In the meantime, can we have a discussion about a set of rules for clarification and fairness?
Update on this request: A developer approached me and is not only helping me with review and fix security issues. We found quite concerning security issues, so I think the decision to have another person look at this was right one.
We discussed and found that we need to do following work
We have some work to do but will have a good product at the end of it. We will update further once we get this work done. Thanks to everyone to your thoughts and offers to help.
Yes this is easy to implement. While I do not fully agree because impersonation can still be done by using username Bytes0nBikes. I feel showing instance names adds complexity for the user and it does not fully address impersonation anyways.
But then again, even though I disagree, many people mentioned that lack of attribution bothers them. So I should take feedback and get this done. I hope this is what everyone meant and they will accept this as a solution.
This is rather easier to implement. I should be able to get this done rather quickly. I will try to do this before end of Dec.