Lola

I don’t like labels either, but society, individuals, and even the dictionary still gives these words definitions. Regardless of how we perceive ourselves and how we define these words, others will perceive us different and even define words differently.

Or more specifically, no matter how I define myself, others will attempt to classify me, label me, and describe me using whatever words they decide is appropriate. I can object to the words they use, but even if I silence them, those words are still in their head.

That means that while I personally don’t use labels on myself, some people will classify me as a trans woman, or a feminine male, or a ladyboy, or as cisgender, or as eccentric.

Labels galore. That does not change how I view myself, however.

But if you go by social/behavioral traits, any powerful women could be potentially be classified as a man because they don’t display the traditional social and behaviors and traits of a woman, even though they very much consider themselves a woman. I know a lot of women who would consider such a notion as being sexist, stereotypical, and insulting.

And then you have the problem that these things change over time. In some cultures of the past, men used to wear dresses and have long hair. Now in most of the western world it is the opposite. The term “gentleman” originally came from the fact that these “gentle men” were considered to be more feminine than normal men. Women uses to stay home and make babies and take care of the home. Now they are workers and CEOs of companies. Times change.

I think it would be hard to get everyone to agree on which specific behaviors or traits correspond to “man” or “women,” especially considering how much they change over time.

If you go by social behavioral cues and personality traits, I am trans, or more specifically a woman with a penis.

Whereas others would argue that the only real difference is anatomy, and that social behaviors and personalities are flexible and fluctuate.

That seems to be what the argument is about. What is the actual definition of a “man” and a “woman?”

@Ferk

To me, “man” and “woman” can’t be labels that go beyond the social/behavioral

Why does “man” and “woman” have to be defined by social/behavioral traits? Not all women are the same, and not all men are the same. This statement applies whether they are CIS or trans.

@Melmi

you can fit the stereotypes for your sex but be trans

What do you mean by that? Wouldn’t that mean you were born with female sexual equipment and act like a stereotypical female? I thought that was CIS. Or are you referring to someone who had surgery to change their sex?

And there are also people like me. I am feminine and have male anatomy. I don’t feel the need to have surgery to conform to other people’s gender stereotypes. I am a feminine man. People just have to deal with the fact that not everyone conforms to society’s stereotypes. And, while I respect other people’s right to alter their bodies how they see fit, I don’t think I should change my body just because someone says men aren’t supposed to be feminine.

Another thing to consider is that humans have a brain powerful enough to override human instincts. For example, we are born with an instinct to reproduce, but we can choose not to.

This also applies to our sexuality, personality, gender, behaviors, preferences, and more. We don’t have to conform to instincts, norms, or stereotypes.

Since that is the case, unless you’re strictly talking about anatomy, two sexes aren’t an accurate way to describe human sexuality.

I don’t think that the problem is saying that there are “two sexes.” The problem is that many people who say that tend to assign a specific gender or stereotype to that sex. In other words, what they really mean is that “men are supposed to be one way and women are supposed to be another,” with the implication that someone isn’t a real man or women if they are not that stereotype. That notion dismisses the reality for people who do not conform to those stereotypes. Trans people are the most obvious expression of gender fluidity, but I think most people don’t conform to society’s rigid standards. They just hide behind a mask, and if they are lucky, express it in the bedroom with a trusted partner.

But, as someone who does not fit gender stereotypes, I can say that there are only four anatomical configurations that people are born with: female genitalia (vagina), male genitalia (penis), both male and female genitalia (vagina and a penis) and no sexual genitalia. Most people are the first two. It also should be noted that a person can have surgery to alter this, and that babies born with both genitalia usually have surgery shortly after birth so they only have one, not both.

So a lot of the reaction to that statement is what people are reading between the lines, and not those specific words themselves.