I thought about it but I couldn’t think of a proper answer.

I guess it would make the most sense to let the colonized decide what to do with the colonizers, since they are the victims.

And what would happen with the people that were brought in as slaves by the colonizers?

I hope someone smarter than me can explain 🙏🥺

  • Kaffe@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 year ago

    Well first of all the indigenous nations as cultural and political entities still exist and still claim territory stolen by the settlers. The majority of settler owned land will be taken back into indigenous sovereignty. Many nations including the Americans and Black people will want to use the same resources. They can share through agreements reached in decolonial states. In my prediction, these states will be confederations between the peoples that inhabit and use the lands and resources in question. Equality of nations rather than equality of individuals will necessarily be the lower stage of Decolonization where individual equality will be gained towards the higher stages as the decolonial states wither away. Africans in the Americas are nations born into world through their struggle against slavery and colonization, but we must be careful reactionary ideas such as a Black Belt state as there are indigenous nations who claim and live in that region still.

    Any system where Americans exercise political supremacy over colonized groups will necessarily reproduce settler Colonial relations. There will be no reforming the American annexationist system, only the the de-fanging of their previous annexations and thus their access to further annexations and Imperialism.

    • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      I am very much in favor of decolonization but this is pure idealism and a recipe for disastrous defeat. If this is really the political platform that indigenous revolutionaries intend to adopt then there is a major risk that the settler colonists will simply decide it is safer to complete the genocide of indigenous people to the last person, as such a plan will be perceived as an existential threat. There is very little chance that the settler majority will allow itself to be turned into second class citizens in what they view as their own land. The fact that it is in fact stolen land may give indigenous people the moral high ground but it does not change the reality of which group has the numbers and the power to dominate it.

      A minority cannot rule over a majority for any extended period of time and even to attempt it requires massive violence of the likes we saw in apartheid South Africa and which we are seeing today in the Zionist entity. It is why the Zionists are attempting to demographically engineer a settler majority in the stolen land. And it is a fact that indigenous people in the US are a very small minority, in fact without the allyship of other colonized nations trapped inside the US prisonhouse of nations, such as the black and latino populations, they stand almost no chance of taking even the smallest chunk of land away from the settler state due to their numbers being so small. They will simply be brutally crushed.

      Any viable strategies will have to involve allyship with a portion of the settler proletariat, possibly to arrive at a model similar to that of the USSR and the Russian Federation, with national republics on specific territories where the minority nations hold a majority. This will involve population transfers, there is no other way around it if you don’t want minority nations to be politically dominated by the settler majority inside these new political entities, a state of affairs which you rightly point out carries the risk of a reproduction of colonial dominance relations.

      Whether or not the US as it exists today will be dissolved and experience secessions by then does not change this logic, because there is no contiguous territory in the continental US that both lacks a settler majority and is capable of supporting an independent state. In whatever states secede from the US settlers will still be a majority and the revolutionary strategy will still require involving at least a portion of them, which is only possible if enough of them perceive the revolutionary project as being also in their interest. You don’t win people over by promising them that they will be politically disempowered if you win.

      Instead of fantasizing about the impossible turning back of the historical clock to pre-colonial times, which, while it may feel morally righteous is not realistic as it does not take into account the material realities of the world as it exists today, i would instead start thinking more practically about how the inevitable war against the settler state will be organized. What will the political leadership structures of the revolution look like, where will the manpower, the material and the logistical support come from, how will the population that supports the revolution be fed, how will the blockades and the bombings be withstood?

      • Kaffe@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        California has over 10x the population of Nevada. Should California be entitled to 10x the land of Nevadans? No, it’s nonsense. The population of a people is dependent on the resources which they have access to. Americans are not entitled to their annexations, most of which is reserved for future exploitation while they suck the rest of the world dry.

      • Kaffe@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        You literally do not understand that the American nation “owns” 98% of the land but occupies around a quarter of it. This land is owned only for the purpose of extraction which allows Americans to live far beyond their means. This territory, the majority of territory in the US and Canada, will be taken from them. If you’d study the land question in the US you’d understand what we’re talking about. This is a matter of state and sovereignty, the Americans aren’t entitled to their own sovereign state, only a decolonial one. There is no point in time to return to. The conservative, reactionary position is settler sovereignty over the lands.

        There is no idealism or moralism except the white guilt and entitlement, to land they don’t even use, felt by settlers. The Americans are already genocidal, and we know that they will seek a final solution to their Indian and Black problem. There are tens of millions of us colonized, and there will be tens of millions of white comrades to fight with us.

        Every revolution is a fight for survival. Ours has been constant.

        • the American nation “owns” 98% of the land but occupies around a quarter of it

          I had no idea it was that low. I’m not Amerikan and don’t know the details of the situation, but this sounds like a promising approach for decolonization. Has there been success in seizing/recovering those territories?

          • Kaffe@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            It’s actually less than that. A quarter includes agriculture, where a fifth of it is sold to our colonies over seas:

            Less than 6% of US land is considered developed. Let’s also look at how they “developed” that land:

            De-colonization is not just about people, it’s about our non-human neighbors as well. If I may share a tweet of mine: https://twitter.com/probablykaffe/status/1662860482360020992?t=-px_6GplvTFzoPrXTOH9zQ&s=19

            There’s a level of American Exceptionism that occurs in the decolonial reaction. This myth that the Americans seriously control the vast territories within their border. They really live far beyond their means and bringing them back to balance is really the only goal we can have. Half of Americans live in single family suburbs. This is unacceptable land use and they will consolidate their space.

            • linkhidalgogato@lemmygrad.ml
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              1 year ago

              by what metric could u say that 60% people occupy 25% of the land cuz if its 25% of all land then thats kinda stupid like who cares what matters is what percentage of accupiable or worthwhile to occupy land they occupy like who cares if whites dont live on the mountains or in the middle of a forest almost no one lives there or is going to live there. like the other 75% of land isnt occupied by oppressed peoples its mostly not occupied at all and opressed people almost certainly occupy less land than white people because 1 they are just less and 2 most white people live in fucking suburbs why is about as inefficient as land use gets

              • Kaffe@lemmygrad.ml
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                1 year ago

                You know that it isn’t occupied because it is reserved for extractive industries right, the state gives extraction rights to private corporations. And 17% of total land is for agriculture which most of it goes over seas for food dependency imperialism or is wasted rotting in dumpsters in settler communities. Y’all don’t even own that shit it is locked up by your kulaks who are direct descendants of the settlers who killed for the land. We will help you expropriate their land and we are taking most of it. 🤷🏾

                • linkhidalgogato@lemmygrad.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  1 seem like u are calling me white/american which frankly disrespectful. and 2 all that says is the corporations and rich people need to own a lot less land (non to exact) but it says nothing about the ability of opressed peoples to take and occupy that land u have been saying this statistic as if its prove indigenous people can take on the capitalists state but it just doesnt if 60% of the people in the usa can occupy only 25% of the land what makes u think less than that can occupy 75% of it. also why should a small minority of people control the majority of the land thats like the whole thing that we are against here.

              • Kaffe@lemmygrad.ml
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                1 year ago

                Decolonized Buffalo is an educational working group and probably the most radical. There are extant groups of Panthers and AIM. We are really in the educational phase of needing to radicalize our families and communities. Getting CPUSA and PSL to recognize the primary contradiction. The water seems to be heating up though. There are in the ML sense spontaneous protests against the colonial conditions, but there isn’t an organization that really guides these moments yet.