The number of Marxists who explicitly reject Lenin make up a tiny minority of the overall number of Marxists globally, and the ones who do so reside almost exclusively in Western Countries. Trying to uphold rejections of Lenin’s expansions on Marx’s original writings as “pure” doesn’t really fit with that.
Secondly, no Marxist supports the Russian Federation, they see it as a horrible Capitalist regime that is temporarily working against the United States out of desparation. The concept of “critical support” is accepting that someone you entirely disagree with ideologically can be fighting a shared enemy, no more and no less.
Do they just support anything that isn’t western even if it’s arguably worse?
Critically support, somewhat, and the argument is that in a geopolitical context the US is more dangerous to Socialist movements than countries opposing US hegemony at the moment, and that once US hegemony is toppled these countries that once had “critical support” can be turned into the next enemy to be fought, assuming they don’t come to Socialism before then. The very fact that you say which is worse is “arguable” lends validity to the concept of critical support, as the alternative is further US domination of the Global South.
Even then, Marxists are divided on Russia. The notion that there are Marxists that support Russia is fantasy.
Ok, so if I’m understanding this correctly, you’re supportive of the actions of countries that oppress their own people (e.g. Russia’s anti-LGBT+ laws, China’s oppression of Uyghurs and Tibetans, etc.), aggressively invade other countries (as Russia is doing in Ukraine, as China sort of did with Hong Kong’s semi-independence and is threatening to do to Taiwan, not to mention their enforcement of their claims in Vietnamese and Filipino waters), without being supportive of the countries themselves. Because you think that those countries causing harm to the western world is likely to eventually lead to the west doing less harm to the developing world, and/or help accelerate the proletarian revolution in western countries?
Is that a fair (in content, if not in tone) assessment of your stance?
I wouldn’t say that’s a fair assessment of my comment, plus I very specifically did not give my stance as my goal was to dispell the myth that any Marxists approve of the Russian Federation’s Capitalism, ultranationalism, reactionary social views, etc. I don’t want to give my personal stance here, as
That would take far too long for a simple Lemmy thread to convey with any real complexity, and
What I personally believe doesn’t matter here, it wouldn’t lead to productive conversation to begin with as Marxism is not a monolith (which was the central point of my last paragraph)
Ok, I guess you’re a lost cause then. Your comments in this thread had me almost thinking I was speaking to someone reasonable, but nope…just typical tankie bullshit.
A decent bit, I try to make it a point to correct misconceptions surrounding Marxism when I see them. I truly believe the biggest source of conflict on Lemmy is talking past each other, most people agree on the fundamentals, ergo correcting misconceptions when I see them is helpful to fostering a less toxic and less divisive environment.
What he’s selling isn’t socialism, it’s authoritarianism. Socialist ideals are already prominent here and his apologia for brutally oppressive regimes does the opposite of fostering a less toxic or less divisive environment.
I’m aware that cowbee isn’t a socialist. However, my discussions with them have made me appreciate leftist ideologies a bit more than i used to. Particularly socialism. I still think communism is too extreme and a recipe for failure
Also, i think most criticisms of Marxism on Lemmy is the echo chamber echoing rather actual rebuttals
When you say I am “not a Socialist,” are you trying to say that because I am a Communist, or are you saying I am a “fake” Socialist, like the other user implies? Marxists consider themselves Socialist and Communist, as Communism is a subcategory of Socialism (and Socialism is the next stage in development to begin with, Communism comes after Socialism, not Capitalism, so in terms of immediacy all Communists are first Socialists). I’m a Marxist, so I am both a Socialist and a Communist.
Lenin created the theory, he didn’t call himself a “Marxist-Leninist” just like Marx didn’t call himself a “Marxist.” In the context of the comment I replied to, they specifically cited Orthodox Marxists, a fringe minority among Marxists that intentionally reject Lenin.
The number of Marxists who explicitly reject Lenin make up a tiny minority of the overall number of Marxists globally, and the ones who do so reside almost exclusively in Western Countries. Trying to uphold rejections of Lenin’s expansions on Marx’s original writings as “pure” doesn’t really fit with that.
Secondly, no Marxist supports the Russian Federation, they see it as a horrible Capitalist regime that is temporarily working against the United States out of desparation. The concept of “critical support” is accepting that someone you entirely disagree with ideologically can be fighting a shared enemy, no more and no less.
Critically support, somewhat, and the argument is that in a geopolitical context the US is more dangerous to Socialist movements than countries opposing US hegemony at the moment, and that once US hegemony is toppled these countries that once had “critical support” can be turned into the next enemy to be fought, assuming they don’t come to Socialism before then. The very fact that you say which is worse is “arguable” lends validity to the concept of critical support, as the alternative is further US domination of the Global South.
Even then, Marxists are divided on Russia. The notion that there are Marxists that support Russia is fantasy.
Ok, so if I’m understanding this correctly, you’re supportive of the actions of countries that oppress their own people (e.g. Russia’s anti-LGBT+ laws, China’s oppression of Uyghurs and Tibetans, etc.), aggressively invade other countries (as Russia is doing in Ukraine, as China sort of did with Hong Kong’s semi-independence and is threatening to do to Taiwan, not to mention their enforcement of their claims in Vietnamese and Filipino waters), without being supportive of the countries themselves. Because you think that those countries causing harm to the western world is likely to eventually lead to the west doing less harm to the developing world, and/or help accelerate the proletarian revolution in western countries?
Is that a fair (in content, if not in tone) assessment of your stance?
I wouldn’t say that’s a fair assessment of my comment, plus I very specifically did not give my stance as my goal was to dispell the myth that any Marxists approve of the Russian Federation’s Capitalism, ultranationalism, reactionary social views, etc. I don’t want to give my personal stance here, as
That would take far too long for a simple Lemmy thread to convey with any real complexity, and
What I personally believe doesn’t matter here, it wouldn’t lead to productive conversation to begin with as Marxism is not a monolith (which was the central point of my last paragraph)
Ok, I guess you’re a lost cause then. Your comments in this thread had me almost thinking I was speaking to someone reasonable, but nope…just typical tankie bullshit.
Bro smelt discussion about Marxism and dashed here immediately💀
Yea I’m a bit of a theory nerd…
It seems that you’re in every discussion that contains some mention of socialism or Marxism. How many threads do you scroll a day?
A decent bit, I try to make it a point to correct misconceptions surrounding Marxism when I see them. I truly believe the biggest source of conflict on Lemmy is talking past each other, most people agree on the fundamentals, ergo correcting misconceptions when I see them is helpful to fostering a less toxic and less divisive environment.
Hopefully.
Well you’re doing a good job… I think. I’m at least more open to socialism than i once was
What he’s selling isn’t socialism, it’s authoritarianism. Socialist ideals are already prominent here and his apologia for brutally oppressive regimes does the opposite of fostering a less toxic or less divisive environment.
I’m aware that cowbee isn’t a socialist. However, my discussions with them have made me appreciate leftist ideologies a bit more than i used to. Particularly socialism. I still think communism is too extreme and a recipe for failure
Also, i think most criticisms of Marxism on Lemmy is the echo chamber echoing rather actual rebuttals
When you say I am “not a Socialist,” are you trying to say that because I am a Communist, or are you saying I am a “fake” Socialist, like the other user implies? Marxists consider themselves Socialist and Communist, as Communism is a subcategory of Socialism (and Socialism is the next stage in development to begin with, Communism comes after Socialism, not Capitalism, so in terms of immediacy all Communists are first Socialists). I’m a Marxist, so I am both a Socialist and a Communist.
Thanks, appreciate it! 🫡
Ah, yes, Lenin. Definitely the creator of Marxism-Leninism, no reason to talk about the other guy.
Lenin created the theory, he didn’t call himself a “Marxist-Leninist” just like Marx didn’t call himself a “Marxist.” In the context of the comment I replied to, they specifically cited Orthodox Marxists, a fringe minority among Marxists that intentionally reject Lenin.