So for context, I went to first grade in mainland China before immigrating to the United States, in China, they teach kids this weird trick that’s basically like reciting a “poem” thing, which I didn’t remember what it was called until I recently googled it. Its apparantly called the “九九乘法口诀表” or 9x9 Song / “The Nine-nine song” (Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_multiplication_table#The_Nine-nine_song_text_in_Chinese).
So like… in 2nd grade, for which I was in the US, multiplication was very easy for me, well… at least up to 10x10. Like idk how to explain it to someone who’s doesn’t speak a variant of Chinese, and even the rhythm only works for me in Mandarin somehow, when I try to use Cantonese, which is the language I speak at home in the US, I cannot replicate the rhythm to make thay thing work, this “Poem”/“Song” is only available to me in Mandarin, like when I think about multiplying together any 2 single digit number, I instictively use the “九九乘法口诀表”.
Like its goes from 1x1 then next lines are 1x2, 2x2, then next are 1x3, 2x3, 3x3, then its 1x4, 2x4, 3x4, 4x4, etc… you get the idea, mutiples of 1, then 2, then 3. So if I need to multiply something by 7, I can start from the line where multiples of 7 are. Sometimes I can remember the exact phrase of it like for example 3x7, without starting from 1x7, then 2x7, then 3x7.
Like I never thought too hard about it, it kinda just became the “normal” way I do multiplication. But someone asked a question on Lemmy about reading analog clocks and I probably didn’t answer their question correctly but that was when I kinda was like: oh wow I forgot that my way of multiplication is probably different from everyone else in the west.
Like if you told me to teach a English-Only speaker on how to do multiplication tables, I… um… I don’t know how I would teach that, the “九九乘法口诀表” doesn’t have the rhythm in English so I doubt converting the it to English would work.
Like even though I speak English as my primary language now, and I barely have any fluency in Mandarin or even Cantonese which I speak at home (and never learned any vocabulary beyond the basics), the “九九乘法口诀表” multiplication thing is always done in mandarin somehow, like its always been stuck in my brain even after all these years in the US.
TLDR answer to my own question. I do it using “九九乘法口诀表” which takes me 1-2 seconds to recall a specific line, so basically, anything up to 10x10 takes about 2 seconds for my brsin to process, 11x11x to 12x12 takes about 5-10 seconds, anything bigger and I just giveup using my brain and pull out a calculator. I memorized 10x10 since first grade, then 12x12 probably by like 2nd grade or maybe first half of 3rd grade.
How do y’all do it, is it easy or hard?
Edit: Okay so the best way for me to explain “九九乘法口诀表” is that: Think of PEMDAS (order of operations), but its for the entire multiplication up to 9x9.
We briefly touched it in primary school in Australia, but ROTE isn’t really learning anything so it wasn’t a big emphasis.
I remember before I move to the US, in China, they tried to make kids memorize a whole story (some children’s story I think, forgot what that was about) and kept kids after school if they didn’t memorize it (like a “detension” basically).
In the US, I had to memorize the Preamble of the US Constitution, I promptly forgot it after the test lol. (I mean considering current US political climate, that went out the window so it doesn’t even matter anymore lol)
But the “九九乘法口诀表” stuck around with me somehow, sometime rote memorization do work, sometimes.
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3rd grade. Was pretty easy. Also helped I had nearly a mile walk to school (and back) with no distractions (didn’t think I had even a Walkman yet) so I was able to practice whatever. Math was easiest because it was right or wrong and it was easy to pick 2 random numbers.
Only did it to 10x10 in my country :3
It was like… 2nd or 3rd grade? Anyhow, Im still bad at them, but that’s cause my brain does numbers weird lol
We stopped at 10x10. I’m still bad at them!
I never learned it. We had specific tests just for them i 3rd grade and I just could never be bothered to actually learn them. I just did the calculations every time and even with the really short time limit I could get over 90% right. So I thought why bother.
I want to say we were supposed to learn them in second grade in Canada, but I personally never did. My memory isn’t good enough, so to this day, I just work it out in my head. For small numbers like 1-12, its easy enough to break it down to smaller parts and solve quickly anyway.
Same here. Nobody ever noticed, so why even bother with memorizing if I can calculate it fast enough.
Because it functions as a base for doing slightly more complicated math in your head.
If you don’t have 7x7 memorized, it’s a lot harder to do 77x70.
But we have calculators… everywhere
Which is totally fine if you do calculations like that every once in a while. If your job or hobby requires frequent multiplication by not-nice numbers, it can be extremely convenient to be able to do this kind of math mentally. Even if it’s just a couple seconds, it can be really annoying having to “switch gears” to grabbing a calculator
It’s also really nice to just be able to do grocery store math without pulling out your phone. Are the 12 packs or the 24 case cheaper?
And that’s probably one of the few remaining uses of mental arithmetic I have nowadays. I also got to practice rounding up numbers for estimating whether or not I’ve got enough money for groceries. It’s easier to keep up with a running total in my head if they’re nice (rounded-up) numbers instead of being surprised at the total cost at the end.
It’s honestly not that hard to memorize your times tables. You do it once in third grade and it stays with you for life.
I use it daily, personally. Comes up a ton in gaming. How many of these can I afford? Etc.
Chess is a good one. No calculator allowed. You have six minutes to make 9 moves, how many seconds per move? And don’t take too long because the calculation eats into your time.
I would have no fucking chance in American places that add tax at the till instead of on the sticker.
Im good at keeping a running total in my head and even figuring out if the 2-for-1 on premium brands works out cheaper than 1 super-budget and shit like that.
If im trying to add 17.5% on top of everything I think id just die.
so why even bother with memorizing if I can calculate it fast enough
The standard is to be able to answer a times table question in 2 seconds, so if it’s taking longer than 2 seconds to calculate it then it’s not fast enough.
I also just work it out in my head. There are certain “landmark” numbers and tricks that I use to save time. For example, 9 times any number is easy: multiply by 10 and subtract once. x11 is similar. Same with anything close to a perfect square. (7 x 8 = 7 x 7 + 7)
I think that memorization was important to achieve speed before phones/calculators. Nowadays, I would consider memorization an obstacle to understanding.
As a teacher, no, memorization is an important step before understanding. I do agree thought that in the times before memorization was a bigger emphasis, but that’s because it was understood that the only information you’d have easy access to would be what youve memorized since we didnt have the internet. Now we teach kids in Literature class how to vet their sources because they are all exposed to the misinformation vortex.
As a teacher, no, memorization is an important step before understanding
Yep, same. Without fail the kids I run into who are bad at Maths and “hate Maths” have been poor at mental arithmetic. i.e. not keeping up with what is being taught because they’re still struggling with the number-crunching. Once they get up to speed with mental arithmetic their marks improve and they don’t hate Maths anymore.
I think a lot of the backlash against rote memorization is the rote part. Without understanding what you’re memorizing—treating the times table as a list of sequences (times table for 2, and then 4, and then 5, etc), the mental load memorizing it becomes unbearably high.
In my case, I was lucky enough to have been made to understand what’s going on (4 groups of 8 items = 40) before being asked to memorize the times table. The visualization also helped me memorize, as well as some tricks (what’s 6×7? 6×6 = 36, right? add 6 to arrive at 42) that as I memorize more and more of the table, become less and less necessary.
Memorization of key facts is required for the development of higher reasoning. For example you can not understand global trade if you have not memorized basic geography.
Key facts, sure. If you don’t know geography, no amount of reflection can provide you with the location of Hong Kong.
However, i can figure out anything on the 12x12 timestable in a few seconds, no memorization needed. I don’t even need the landmark numbers that i mentioned because multiplication is just repeated addition. The only things i had to memorize were the numerals and the operators.
i can figure out anything on the 12x12 timestable in a few seconds
Within 2 seconds is the standard expected. Longer than that is lagging behind your peers
Meh. That is why the narrow application of standards is another obstacle to learning. I was top of my math classes all through high school and university, despite my ‘slow’ multiplication that required no memorization.
In the UK we also had a song thing for the first 12 times tables, but I was never good at rhythmic recall as a kid so I always had some issues with 7 and 8 times tables.
Was pretty good at all the rest by the start of Year 3, though.
I struggled learning them but that was in part due to me not wanting to learn them. I got by, barely. Currently, I’m pretty good with some of them but no expert.
I think we had up to do up to 12 times tables by 3rd or 4th grade. I remember starting in 1st at school but really I learned them from Schoolhouse Rock. In the states Schoolhouse Rock was on Saturday Mornings between regular cartoons and they had such great songs.
In US, in 1st/2nd we did phonetic learning of the times tables 12x12 as well as the states in alphabetical order and the president’s in order of inauguration.
still easy to recite today.
the states in alphabetical order and the president’s in order of inauguration.
Lol I only know like 10 president’s name before it was too much depressing history for me. They never tested us on it. They made us fill in state names with a blank US map and the capital of each, I think I got like a 70/100 on the test, didn’t like it. Idk why learning 50 US states is gonna help me since I’m not going to like half of them cuz um… ahem politics 👀
I never did. I was never interested in memorization, when I already had ways to do multiplication slowly using basic principles.
I still pull out a calculator for nearly every calculation. I can’t do 6×7 instantly, if I don’t have a calculator I’d take my time and break it down to something that I can solve. And sometimes I get it wrong.
That’s never stopped me though. I’m studying electrical engineering and computer science, both of which are very math-heavy, and I get top grades. Most exams allow a calculator anyway.
That’s said, I don’t recommend this way of life. I think the multiplication table is genuinely really useful to have memorized. I’m a bit of an idiot for never doing that.
We stopped at ten and I’ve never learned them due to it being, in my opinion at the time, waste of time as you can always just count. They are pretty useful actually. 😅
Never really memorized it. I just calculated it in my head, unless I had a calculator accessible. It’s slow, but gets the job done.
I got quite fluent in matrix multiplication for a while during my university years. That’s what linear algebra and no calculator exams does to one.
Much easier when I learned you just take the previous number and add + whatever to it.
5 X 8 = 40
5 X 9 = 45 (40+5)
5 X 10 = 50 (45+5)
5 X 11 = 55 (50+5)
5 X 12 = 60 (55+5)I thought it was supposed to be rote memorization though. When you were asked “what’s 5x12?” Did you go through 12 iterations to arrive at the answer?
I didn’t use this method as a kid, but I do use it or something like it pretty often to solve the math formula that my phone requires to turn its alarm off because that can go up to 15 and I don’t have above 10s 100% well memorized. I can get 10, 5, 1, and 2 of anything pretty quickly, so 11 is 10+1, 12 is 10+2, 13 is 10+5-2, etc. I don’t think it would have met the speed requirements of my times tables tests back in elementary school, especially because I was probably slower on my 2s, 5s, and addition back then, but 2-3 iterations is generally few enough that I can close the alarm before it gets too loud/annoying, even in a half-asleep state
I also use the repeated addition/subtraction method, and found that once memorizing just 3 key points, I was faster and more consistent than those that tried to memorize the tables. 65, 95 and 12*12 is all you need
The moderator has become the moderated. I’d love to see what was said here.
LOL - the automod went off the rails for a few minutes, should be back to normal now. Stuff is being restored.
This is how my brain processes stuff. I’m absolutely stupid with basic math. I count on my fingers to this day. But practically speaking I can take benchmarks and then add a number.
For instance, I know that 6x6=36. Instantly I know that in my head. But 6x7…I will pause. I think I know what answer sounds right, but I don’t “know” it instantly. So I take my 36 and add 6, and confirm in my brain its 42.
Its dumb, but it works. Everybody thinks I’m good at math because I understand math concepts. I’ve studied as far as calculus. I’ve analyzed number data in business. I can do all that but still need help with my basic arithmetics. It’s worked for me so far.
Still dont know em. Did advanced math and now 90% completed an engineering degree. Their is no point to memorising them in this day and age.
