“Startup” is just short hand for “self-absorbed shitbird(s) playing fast and loose with other people’s money”.
Some will say those are the little guys trying to add competition in the market and compete with the big corporations. But since they are all VC backed, exploit workers, and just end up getting acquired anyway if they don’t fail, it’s hard to see it that way.
Made the mistake of taking an entrepeneurship internship over the summer at university. Every partnership they had in place proposed projects that basic due dilligence disqualified in seconds, and the lead professor was flabergasted that a bunch of business majors, IT, Design and Engineering majors had the noses to smell bullshit.
Okay, so I was even more surprised we were able to convince the business majors with little effort, but they were mostly seniors. Oh, and the one IT major with a viable product/prototype was ejected from the program.
A simple, “we are going a different direction” would have been enough. Fuck this CEO and queue the Mario Bros theme!
DO THE MARIO
queue
Actually in this case “cue” is the correct form of the word. It’s reference to cue sheets for plays
*cue, as in “this was her cue to step onto the theater stage”
“No no, you don’t understand. You shouldn’t have a family, you have to flog yourself to death for this startup company that’s making a Gym Membership app. If you don’t neglect your kids to vibe code a scheduling system then you just don’t deserve a job and you and your family should just die”
Some of you will die but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.
Bro, if you don’t believe in GimLyfe, maybe success isn’t for you.
You should really consider having the grindset to be a self-starter in our face-paced family, instead of having a real family.
I work 80+ hr weeks and it never feels like work because I love it.
In other words, this guy works not for the money, but because it’s what he’d do even if he wasn’t paid. Sounds like he could afford higher taxes.
No question this guy is a tool, he’s posting on LinkedIn. However, he’s not wrong about startups being a bad fit for anyone looking for work-life balance. You’re literally trying to build a business from scratch as fast as possible before the seed money runs out, and your compensation is usually more equity than salary. No time for anything but work in that scenario, or no one gets paid.
On the plus side, sounds like the applicant dodged a bullet.
My actual reply to this nonsense that I’ve experienced before. Tell me what your startup does that benefits humanity. Other than making a few people rich, how does humanity benefit from this product. You want me to give up my life outside of work and I will, the moment you tell me this product will make humanity better.
I’m too tired of this bullshit. These people would rather just keep digging holes than determine the best way to build a house. If you’re ever in this situation, you dodged a bullet.
Put down your pitchforks, people. Self-confessed fabrication: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/bgoldstein3_founder-career-activity-7354574299103436800-HpOn
But you can bring them back out for being such a tool, he still deserves it.
A fabrication based on a true story.
Yes, a cautionary tale.
Oh, thank god. Although I’ve known many managers who openly say that they throw out the application of anyone who mentions “work/life balance”, so unfortunately it’s a real sentiment.
Sounds exploitative because it is. Just because work is your entire personality doesn’t mean every one else’s should be too. Fucking tool
Recently read “Pimp” by Iceberg Slim, and it seems like a training manual for (some) modern managers and executives. Use your recruiting process to select low-esteem, easily manipulated people to be your worker drones, and they will do 80 hour weeks to earn that pizza party.
who deeply believe in the mission (and the future value of their equity)
This is the only proviso for me. Some people wouldn’t mind working themselves to exhaustion for a lot of money. Then the question of whether it’s exploitative or not depends on the amounts involved and the conditions of equity ownership
Dude, you’re pulling 80 hour weeks for your company. That you own. Expecting the same input from people who will never see as much as a percentage of what you stand to make off of their success is delusional. But I suppose delusion is almost a requirement for these kind of people.
I think what he said about startups is more pr less true. Of course, with startups you’re putting in a lot of work to break into or create a new market, and you get a percentage of that company, too. It certainly isn’t for everyone, and most people don’t want to do it for their whole career. And expecting that kind of attitude from a regular employee is simply ridiculous.
Depends how much equity they give their employees
Exactly!! Easy to pull so many hours when it is for your own business. But do not expect employees who could get fired or laid off any time at your own will to have the same commitment.
The vast majority of people who start at the beginning of a startup will receive equity, so they are also co-owners.
Exactly, there is a place in the world for startups burning 80 hr/wk. Just compensate the people who are doing that adequately with equity, and hire risk takers who want that kind of risk.
I agree in principle that start up employees can be incentivized better than the usual wage or salary slave.
There is always a big butt, though.
Non-capital investors almost always get shares of a lower class that can be denied a share of any future revenue from a sale of the company or god forbid they get real revenue.
These term “Hollywood accounting” exists for a reason and skepticism about the real value of lower class shares is very valid.
Maybe for employees like 1-5. Beyond that is rapidly diminishing amounts of equity. I was employee #49 and got like 40,000
sharesoptions (that I had to buy)And even if you are like employee #3, the actual owner and investors get more than you
Yeah, 100%. This kind of advice can maybe make sense if you’re starting a startup, but everyone employed at that stage needs to be on equal ground and well-protected. If they’re not, then that can still be fine, but they can’t be expected to put as much of their lives into your product. They’re contractors you’re hiring for some shit-shoveling and maybe it’s best to be honest about that.
The unfortunate thing in tech is that, due to pushing “learning to code” as a universal employment option, there’s always a pool of idealistic fresh blood that is willing to crunch for you if you make vague mention of being in it together, when a few people stand to gain the vast majority of the profit if the company’s product is successful. By the time the new recruits are old and bitter and burnt out, you can lay em off for poor performance (or cannibalize the company at large) and hire some more doe-eyed interns.
If you’re expecting your employees to consistently work long hours for you, they need to have the same stake as you do. They need flexibility to take care of their mental and physical health as needed. You should encourage them to unionize and collectively bargain for their needs once they come in conflict with yours, because they absolutely will. You can’t afford to lose these people, because it’s rare to find people that won’t get ground into dust doing this because they want it as bad as you. so make it sustainable and more than worth their while.
these types view themselves as above the labor they’re hiring because they got there first / had the means to form a company and I fucking hate it.
Personally theory…
Many startups fail because people try to work 80+hrs per week. Biologically more than about 25-30 hours of work is usually a waste of time. You can occasionally pull a long week but then you need to rest and recover to get back to full productivity. If you push beyond it often, you’ll make a shit ton of stupid mistakes that completely nullify all your efforts.
If you’ve ever been around someone “working” on hour 70+ during a week you’ll know what I mean. A five minute tasks takes them an hour and they generally fuck it up.
I’ve worked for a few startups (in software). They all failed because their idea was stupid, the executives were technically incompetent borderline sociopaths, and they weren’t even good at getting VCs to throw money at them. Some employees worked insane hours while others of us fucked off most of the time and came to work high - it made no difference.
The grammar alone is enough of a red flag.
Yeah, if someone rejects me for not wanting to work 80 hours a week, I’d be glad. I worked a place where I was working between 50 and 60 hours a week all the time, and it affected my health. I will never do that crap again.
I am honestly surprised to hear people say stuff like this after the pandemic. My perspective post pandemic really changed. The things that are important to me isnt how much I work. Nobody’s gonna give a shit that you put in 12 hour days at work when you’re on your death bed. Spend time with the people you care about, and work to live. Not the other way around.
This guy (assuming this is real) is the chump, not the person who interviewed.
The interviewee got exactly what they wanted. It’s exactly why they mentioned it early in the process.
Everything he wrote makes sense IF you are working for yourself, for your startup, get paid by the hour (doesn’t apply since he mentioned little pay), or you are gaining priceless skills and experience which you can soon after capitalize from (investing yourself).
The work my firm does affords no work life balance, and I tell that to anyone that approaches us for work. That said I also tell them that they will get paid for every hour they work.
Expecting people to work extra without additional compensation is illegal in a lot of states but the slave/hustler mentality has normalized it for many.
PS: At my firm, the number of work hours is determined by the employee. If you are only available for 10 or 20 hours a week, then that’s all you work, but that’s also all you get paid for. We have a few “retired” experts that only work a handful of hours but they have irreplaceable expertise. It’s a win/win IMHO.
Our western society is built on this bullshit. It is the cancer that is killing us all.
Nah we Germans are chillin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours
He’s actually not wrong. Startups are brutal, you have to literally take in the whole world with as little as possible.
Once you carve out your niche, then you can relax a bit. But before that you are in a race with an unknown number and quality of competitors. You can’t afford to have a good work-life balance.
So; the candidate did tank their chances by mentioning they wanted better work-life balance. You don’t apply to startups if that’s what you want. Look more towards established banks and the like.
But the dude in the post yapping about loving 80hr weeks is clearly deranged (or trying to impress some VCs)
Yeah I have worked at startup companies, twice, from beginning through 12 years, it’s been my career so far, and honestly I like seeing the progression and jump out when it gets too established and bureaucratic and inflexible. Those long hours at the beginning usually do come with some flexibility, and figuring out things and fixing problems, implementing new systems (I am an accountant) is good and interesting work. I guess I got lucky both times since they didn’t go under, one got sold and this one is starting to get too corporate.
